Spats, Spectators, Black & White Tie

[Edward]

Question regarding appropriate footwear. With white tie, I've only ever worn highly polished black shoes (must get a pair of patent Oxfords at some point....). For black tie I've fallen into the habit of wearing a pair of spectator / co-respondent style two-tone brogues. Is this a dreadful faux pas? I have to admit I'm a sucker for the look - it'd be terrible with tails, but with black tie it has that little extra rakish charm which helps to set one apart from the run of the mill without being that guy - you know, the one with the novelty cartoon character waistcoat....

Also, spats.... would they ever have been worn with black tie or white tie? I know their purpose was to protect the leather of the shoe - i presume, more to the point, the shoe's shine - when was it considered proper to remove them - at one's desitination? Or were they always worn over the top as an embellishment?

 

[AlanC]

For black tie I've fallen into the habit of wearing a pair of spectator / co-respondent style two-tone brogues. Is this a dreadful faux pas?

Well, yes. The brogue has its origin as a country shoe. The holes were originally there to let water from the bog seep back out of your shoes. In the US the brogue/wingtip has become the ultimate business shoe as epitomized by the IBM look of the '60s. Black tie is supposed to be not-country and not-business (thus also the aversion to notch lapels). Personally, if I was going to do black tie, calf pumps seem to me to be the most attractive option. Of course, if you just want to thumb your nose at convention, the black tie police are unlikely to haul you off.

 

[dhermann1]

Pumps. I remember being taken aback to say the least the first time I realized that pumps, with little ribbons on the toe, were the preferred shoe for black tie. What's the general opinion of (black opatent leather) cap toe oxfords, or cap toes with patent leather on the toe and (as I recall) black suede on the rest?
As I recall, just from movies (particularly "Gigi"), the white spats are common for white tie dress.

 

[Edward]

Well, yes. The brogue has its origin as a country shoe.

Ha, I figured as much....

The holes were originally there to let water from the bog seep back out of your shoes. In the US the brogue/wingtip has become the ultimate business shoe as epitomized by the IBM look of the '60s.

Black tie is supposed to be not-country and not-business (thus also the aversion to notch lapels).

Yes, I do wish that I had gone for soemthing else now, though when I bought my suit that was the norm. Not been able to quite justify repalcing it as of yet, but if I can find more of an excuse to wear black tie regularly (sadly absent at the minute), I might well see whether I can't scrape together the funds for a repalcement. My white jacket (well, slightly off white) is a shawl collar (single breasted), though I really rather fancy the peaked lapel tuxes Indy Magnoli does.... But hey ho.

Personally, if I was going to do black tie, calf pumps seem to me to be the most attractive option.

Terminology..... what is a pump? not sure if we use that in the same sense over here.... I was thinking black patent Oxfords would look sharp. Maybe black/white Oxfords if I'm feeling rakish, ha.... Actually, the reason i think i always associted spectator / corespondent styles more with black tie was in the back of my mind somewhere they seemed to have been an evolution onwards from the spatted shoe - the separate spat having given way to a contrast panel on the shoes. Probably erroneous, but...

Of course, if you just want to thumb your nose at convention, the black tie police are unlikely to haul you off.

Heh, quite. I just wish it was more commonly an option...

dhermann1, what do you mean by ribbons on the toe - any pictures? I'm leaning towards black patent Oxfords myself for white tie wear, maybe with spats (at least while one is travelling to and from dinner!).

 

[AlanC]

Terminology..... what is a pump? not sure if we use that in the same sense over here

Pump with bow by Grenson:

.... I was thinking black patent Oxfords would look sharp.

Semi-formal (ie, for black tie) patent oxfords (no cap) from Brooks Brothers:

Both are considered correct for black tie.

Also take a look at the comprehensive Black Tie Guide, particularly their page on footwear.

 

[dhermann1]

Pump with bow by Grenson:

When I first saw those, I thought they were something that would go more with a tutu. But I'm used to them now.

 

[Tomasso]

I've been lusting after these Lobb's for a year or two.

 

[Gaige]

When I first saw those, I thought they were something that would go more with a tutu. But I'm used to them now.

Hopefully no one shoots me for this... but I think they look horrendous.

Patent Oxfords look, in my opinion, much more classy and attractive.

 

[Fletch]

I've worn black/white specs with white DJ and straw boater. Otherwise I'd avoid 'em with formal dress.

I like the idea of 2-tone black oxfords for black tie, such as E.T. Wright's "Gomez"patent/calf captoes, ($219, left), or Allen-Edmonds' "Hampstead" ($304, right), in plain/woven calf.

For the ultimate in simplicity, there's the plain-toe slip-on such as Wright's "Denver" ($194, left), or A-E's "Bristol" ($274, right).

And it doesn't get much more elegant than the plaintoe patent oxford such as A-E's "Kendall" or the plain-vamp, plaintoe oxford such as A-E's "Westgate" in calf (both $304).

I think A-E is missing a bet by not doing the Westgate in patent.

A-E also does some perforated plain-toe styles that seem like naturals for formal wear, "Hastings" ($304, left) and "Fairfax" ($294, middle and right). The Fairfax is actually a brogued plain toe, which I think is really neat.

Just to give you some ideas.

 

[Gaige]

The "Hampstead" looks phenomenal.

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Regarding spats.

From the October 2003 issue of The Exposition, the newsletter for the Art Deco Society of Los Angeles, in an article titled, When the Invitation Calls for Formal, by Rory Cunningham:

"White spats, which have their origin in protection of the leg and foot when walking in grass and brambles, were perfectly acceptable with tails for outdoor wear only. (Emphasis mine) The exception, of course, being for famous tap dancers. Indeed, critics on the continent considered the wearing of spats for a formal evening event a showy and garish fashion . . . which was not unexpected of Americans."


Lee

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Also take a look at the comprehensive Black Tie Guide, particularly their page on footwear.

Very informative. I've barely scratched the first few pages and I've already learned far more in one night than in my previous 43 years. Thank you, AlanC.


Lee

 

[Edward]

"White spats, which have their origin in protection of the leg and foot when walking in grass and brambles, were perfectly acceptable with tails for outdoor wear only. (Emphasis mine) The exception, of course, being for famous tap dancers. Indeed, critics on the continent considered the wearing of spats for a formal evening event a showy and garish fashion . . . which was not unexpected of Americans."

Nothing new under the sun.... includes European snobbishness about you Yanks, eh? That's actually pretty much what I thought, makes logical sense. Actually, I always found it strange that white spats seem to have become more common (at least in the popular perception at this historical distance it seems so) - bearing in mind the purpose of spats, you'd think that black or some dark shade would be more appropriate.

(OT, but on the scuffing front, that's one of the reasons I've always cared for patterned brogues - to me if they get a scratch it's going to be much less likely to show up on a patterned than on a plain surface).

Otherwise I'd avoid 'em with formal dress.Just to give you some ideas.

Thanks! I love the look of that Hastings shoe... possibly a litrle out of my price range when solely for black tie, but still, nice! Looks like I'll be looking into a modestly priced but decent pair of plain patents...

Ah, right, gotcha. Yes, these look like an evolution of the kind of shoes that would have been worn with an earlier style of formal dress - knee britsches and stockings and all that. I can't quite see me sporting those with black tie - the plain patents I suspect it will be!

You know, I'd totally forgetten this, but I realise now..... the first black tie do ever I went to I wore a pair of ankle length, highly polished cowboy boots. :eusa_doh: For shame! Still, it does suggest I had the peacock tendency even then! lol

Also take a look at the comprehensive Black Tie Guide, particularly their page on footwear.

Thanks, Alan... I think my answer will be the patent shoe option... Seems a great link - I'll definitely peruse that before I buy anything (damn, I knew this site would lead to a world of expense... ).


Thanks, guys - it's great to be able to learn from this site, and unlike so many forums out there I've not felt intimated or belittled for asking what are probably very dumb newbie questions. Much appreciated.

 

[cookie]

Go Get "em!!!!

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...ection_Id=494&Product_Id=997344&Parent_Id=305

 

[cookie]

Go Get "em!!!!

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...ection_Id=494&Product_Id=997344&Parent_Id=305

Monk Strap Specs - Hullo Allan C!

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...ction_Id=523&Product_Id=1048878&Parent_Id=522

 

[Tomasso]

the first black tie do ever I went to I wore........... highly polished cowboy boots. :eusa_doh: For shame!

 

[AlanC]

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...ection_Id=494&Product_Id=997344&Parent_Id=305

Monk Strap Specs - Hullo Allan C!

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCat...ction_Id=523&Product_Id=1048878&Parent_Id=522

Oh, man. Those pumps are tempting, tempting.

The double-monk specs seem a little much somehow. I own both double monks and specs, but somehow together they're not working. Of course, if I owned them I'd probably wear them! They're out of my price range, anyway.

 

[Edward]

Oh, for shame, I think i should just shoot myself now....

 

[Miss Sis]

I'm pretty sure that spats went out of fashion for gents in England by the end of the 1920s.

 

[Edward]

I'm pretty sure that spats went out of fashion for gents in England by the end of the 1920s.

I think you're right. My vague understanding was that the white panels on a spectator / correspondent mimiced the contrasting colour cloth of the spat, so those shoes were an evolution of the footwear in that sense, which came in in the 30s. I could very well be wrong, though!