Society for the Preservation of the Lighter Weight Divisions

[tonyb]

My mention of lightweight felt hats is prompted by yesterday's arrival of a Stetson Playboy, acquired via the good agency of our bamboo-growing friend from down the road a ways.

This is a fabulous hat -- as light a lid as I ever handled, I believe, yet still quite substantial, somehow. The felt has a great "hand," and the style is right in line with what I wish today's mass manufacturers would adopt. You know, a straight-sided, tallish crown, with a moderate (2 3/8ths inch) brim.

What I'm chewing over is why so few lightweight felts are out there. I speculate that it's partly because relatively few of them were made (or are made today); and partly because they tended to be of the more casual styles, which means they were likely worn under rougher conditions; and partly because their thinner material weakened and wore through more readily than the heavier hats did. (I cringe whenever I see a hat handled by the pinch.)

I've had a few lightweight hats, starting with a pair of unlined Stratoliners I bought 30-plus years ago for next to nothing at the Goodwill store (I still kick myself for what I did to those hats), and I've acquired a few more in recent years, including a couple of other Strats (one lined, the other unlined) and a Mallory Dallas in Pliafelt (which is some great stuff, by the way).

Right off the top of my head, I can't think of any lightweight hats in production these days, with the possible exception of the Borsalino Alessandria. And even it seems only relatively light -- not exactly a featherweight. In comparison to this old Stetson Playboy, it's a Mack truck.

Thoughts?

 

[Akubra Guy]

It seems to me that the thinner, lighter weight felts of older hats are MORE durable precisely because they are more flexible/pliable. Having just recently acquired my first vintage lightweights- 40's vintage Borsolino Alessandra, Portis Tissue-Wait, Stetson Stratoliner among others the difference to me is immediately apparent to the thicker/heavier weight felts as to flexibility and resistance to "pinch" damage from flexing the felt to tightly.

That light but dense felt seems to me to have required a lot more work/time to achieve in the hat making process which today would be cost prohibitive given the volume of total hat production. It is a shame.

 

[fedoralover]

Good points Tony, I think that today the lightweight felts are not very practical from a vendor standpoint. They are harder to work with, not as much room for error when pouncing and today most people probably don't know how to take care of such a hat. They would wear a hole through the crown in no time. The newer borsalino's that I've seen are lighter than some of the others but it's a different kind of lighter than the vintage ones.
Meaning they seem to be light because the felt is not as dense as opposed to being lighter because they are thinner, if that makes sense. Art is making light weight fedora's now that compare in weight to the older ones, coming in at about 80 grams. Probably us hataholics are the few that would appreciate them.

fedoralover

 

[tonyb]

Interesting theory, AG. It hadn't occurred to me before. I wonder if the degree of weakening the felt suffers as a result of pinching might also be affected by the amount of stiffener in that felt. Just a thought, you know, and one I'm not really up to defending.
I believe fedoralover has identified the primary reason we not only don't see much by way of lightweight felts from the big manufacturers these days, but also other things we'd like to see them re-adopt, such as more traditional styles and higher build and materials quality in general: It just isn't worth it to them. The market is too small, and most of it is not well enough informed to appreciate the difference a costlier manufacturing process would make -- not enough to pay for it, anyway.
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what percentage of, say, Hatco's business is in "dress" (as opposed to Western) hats?

 

[Fletch]

Good points Tony, I think that today the lightweight felts are not very practical from a vendor standpoint. They are harder to work with, not as much room for error when pouncing and today most people probably don't know how to take care of such a hat. They would wear a hole through the crown in no time.
[...] Art is making light weight fedora's now that compare in weight to the older ones, coming in at about 80 grams. Probably us hataholics are the few that would appreciate them.

True. Sadly, comfort is seldom a consideration these days in purchasing a felt. If the weather is warmer, one wears straw or does without. As a "hothead" (prone to excessive perspiration), this irritates me particularly.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Back in the day, when there was a robust (albeit declining) market for hats, and hats were worn year 'round in substantial numbers -- it makes sense that there was a considerable market niche for lightweight felts. I agree with what's been said here -- given the very small market for hats these days, it wouldn't justify the production of lightweights as a general matter.

What's not so clear is why relatively few of these lids seem to be around today. I just received a 1940 Stetson ad that claims sales of over 2 million Playboy lids (not to mention Playboy sales in the ensuing decade). I'll bet that production of lightweight felts over time was fairly substantial, so I'd expect to see more of them around...

When I received my Stetson Playboy, it just amazed me that the felt could be so light, yet still dense and substantial. Ditto on the Mallory Dallas -- the Pliafelt is really something special. It would certainly be a worthy goal for a hat manufacturer to recreate this kind of felt -- but I'm not holding my breath.

Incidentally, I have never owned or handled a Stratoliner, and did not know that they are considered a lightweight lid. Are they lightweight felts a la the Playboy? Or, are they relatively lightweight compared to, for example, an Open Road?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[besdor]

The reason that there arent that many vintage around is because it's been 50+ years since these hats were made. Most people wore their hats out and they were either thrown out or passed on to someone else. They werent meant to be saved. Unfortunately , good sources to vintage hats are almost gone. You need to be a good and patient person to find nice vintage hats. With the creation of Ebay, everyone today goes to tag sales( a good place to look ) to find their treasures.





Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[VetPsychWars]

In addition, I'd say that these hats tended towards the smaller sizes that rarely fit men today. (They probably fit a lot more women, I'd guess.)

Tom

 

[tonyb]

Jimmy, I believe that Stratoliners were essentially lighter weight Open Roads. It sure seems that way when I compare them side by side. And some Strats came unlined, which further lightened them. I've never seen an unlined Open Road.
But ... there was so much variation in both Stratoliners and ORs that pinning down anything definite is all but impossible. There's a wide variety of brim widths, crown heights (and shapes), bow styles, and grades (and probably weights) of felt.
So, is the Stratoliner a lightweight hat? I suppose it is, relative to most. But next to this Playboy it hardly seems so.

 

[majormoore]

One of the key problems is when the hat is being made into what we hatters get called a blank, the hat has to go to a finger blocker which has 32 to 42 fingers that grab the brim and pull the hat out ward which gives the hat a some what hat look, when the weight of the felt is thin, and the pulling on this blank by the machine, it makes it hard on the factory, they rip alot of good blanks. When the blanks gets up to this part and rips or tears it goes into the trash can.

I have seen many of the blanks from the factory I get blanks from be pulled apart when the felt is down there in that low oz. weight. Those old machines are strong, and even with all the hot and cold water poured over them during the making of the blank, they can pull the felt apart.

I think the reason those old hats are not around much is that they got wore everyday in all kinds of weather, and from handling everyday, weak spots showed ( hole where the owner grabbed the hat at) and then that hat became the hunting or fishing hat due to the owner getting a new hat for everyday wear, and so the old hats were then used to the point of just falling apart and was trashed or burned. Also we all know that moths love these beaver hats, and have eaten many good hats up also.

When I and others meet in Memphis next week, I will have several bags of pure beaver, and differant furs from rabbits and so on, so those that attend can feel the differance in the furs. Will have a blank that just comes out from the mixing booth, where it looks like a little teepe, and will have one that has gone thru several steps before it even goes to the finger blocker, and will have the hat body after it is pulled to hat blank size, and then a finished hat.

It is a real eye opener when you see all the steps and people that have to handle the body, before I, Art, Steve and all the other hatters ever get a hat blank, then it's another long process hatters go thru to make your hat.

I took a man last week thru the plant, never has really owned a hat, after it was over I asked him what do you think the cost of the blanks are to me based on all the people and time you saw to make that hat blank? his reply was he felt sure from what he saw, the blank had to cost me at least $300.00 bucks, he was shocked at all the people and time it took to make that blank.

Fur cost are going up every day. along with trucking cost of raw material and shipping cost of hats. It all adds to the total cost of our hats from whom ever and what ever type material is used.

Mike , aka Major Moore