SNAFU

[Spitfire]

You know this situation: You are enjoying yourself reading a book - or watching a movie for that matter - and then suddenly, there is something that is not right. Something out of context.
It can ruin all the fun. It can spoil a great experience - no matter how small and unimportant it is. It's there. Like a stone in the shoe.

My stone is this:
In the book -"That summer" by Andrew Grieg - taking place during Battle of Britain, the author let the british pilot use the term "SNAFU". When he later explains it to his girlfriend, he says that "it's something he picked up by the yanks"...?????
How can a british pilot in the summer of 1940 meet any yanks? Or even heard that word?:eusa_doh:
I know there were a few american pilots present during BoB - we have discussed that earlier here.
Anybody know when the word SNAFU first came up?
My guesse is, that it is rather late in the war...
Anyway, to me it's just downright irritating when an author doesn't do his homework.
When you KNOW something is wrong!!!

Overall it's a very good, wellwritten and emotional book - but this "SNAFU" is just a stone in the shoe!:rage: :rage:
Any of you ever had the same experience?

 

[scotrace]

From Wiki:

SNAFU, simply defined as "Situation normal", was reported in American Notes and Queries in their September 1941 issue, which would argue for an origin date no later than early 1941. Most references, including the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, supply a date range of 1940 - 1944, generally attributing it to the U.S. Army.

It's plausible.

 

[Baggers]

It's plausible.

But just barely, in my opinion. And, "Situation Normal?" The rest of the phrase defined by the acronym is missing. SNAFU means precisely the opposite!

I agree with Spitfire, it just sounds wrong for an RAF pilot to be using American slang that had just barely been coined when the events in the book took place. Even if the character was trying to sound American, there probably were other terms he could have used that would have been safer. Then there's the fact that that the RAF had it's own particular vocabulary. Here's a list I just found with the pukka gen, and SNAFU is nowhere to be found.

Cheers!

 

[scotrace]

Well, the remainder of the Wiki entry defines the entire phrase (and dozens of others), but we can't very well quote that here, can we?

 

[BegintheBeguine]

FUBAR

My dad loved to say "Situation normal, all fouled up". It is normal at my house for the situation to be fouled up, just as it is in the Army, isn't it everywhere?

 

[Baggers]

Well, the remainder of the Wiki entry defines the entire phrase (and dozens of others), but we can't very well quote that here, can we?

Well, true, but with the inclusion of the rest of the phrase along a few strategically placed asterisks -- or BegintheBeguine's more commonly accepted substitution, as used in the other widely used phrase which she offered -- and "Bob's your uncle," it's cleaned up enough even for our dear Hemingway's tender sensibilities. lol

It's okay, it's Sunday morning. One's allowed to not be entirely on top of one's game.

Cheers!

 

[Smithy]

I had the same feeling when I read that as well Spitty.

Most likely an RAF pilot at the time of the BoB would not use SNAFU (I'm the same as the other guys - too early), although the Brylcreem Boys did use a lot of US slang from movies, music, etc.

If it was me, I'd glaze over that and not worry too much, it's a good book. But I know what you mean when things like that turn up, they tend to really jump out.

 

[Spitfire]

You are right Smithy - it's a very good book.
But sometimes these "mistakes" or "not researched enough" or "cutting corners like hey nobody will notice it's not a sherman tank" just ruins the whole story.
In the movie "Memphis Belle" they let P-51 Mustangs escort the B17 - knowing, that at the time Memphis Belle made her finale tour, there were no Mustangs in ETO.
And then - they even let the Mustangs "turn for home halfway to the target" propably in order to create suspense.
I mean - the Mustang could fly to Berlin and back!!!

On some website I once read a lot of critic on the series Band of Brothers - comming from some hardcore 101 fans/historians/reenactors.
When it came down to details like wether it was the right buttons they had in their trousers - I sort of left the building.
That was maybe just too, too much...but I guesse I also have a piece of it.

But glad that you noticed it as well! Then I am not all alone in the world.

 

[Twitch]

Whether accuarate or not it might be plausible since there was an interaction amongst the Yanks and the Brits. It wouldn't put me off of a movie just to hear it though. All through air combat movies' history they have used American "look alike" planes that just sort of could be taken for Zeros, Messerschmitts, MiGs or whatever simple because the actual machines were unavailable or long gone from the flight line.

The AT-6 was a stand in for the Zero in God is my Co-pilot and many other movies in the 40s-50s. F-84s were MiG 15s in the McConnell Story with Alan Ladd. and F-5s have stood in for later MiGs in Top Gun and other more modern flicks. Even in the 60s Battle of Britain they used post-war Spanish-built Bf 109s that used Merlins with accompanying sheet metal bulge nedoting the fact.

When I was a kid I'd yell "fake, fake!" but now I realize that they did the best they could portraying machines which simply did not exist or were not available to the production companies.

At least with CGI we can have squadron of Stukas in the air, none of which still fly.

 

[Spitfire]

Along the same line I have another (maybe embarrasing) question:
Would ordinary british dancebands play Glen Miller in the summer 1940?[huh]

 

[Chanfan]

I certainly get the impression that bands freely "borrowed" tunes from each other at that time.

 

[Spitfire]

I guesse so too - only thought it was a bit too early. Then I read that Tuxedo Junction was recorded febuary 1940....so it just may be right.

 

[Twitch]

Well we were playing Beatles music long before they came to the US so probably. No doubt records found their way across the water by 1940.

I bet the later USO shows were attended by British musicians on occassion and they picked up various pieces for their own groups. There just had to be more intermingling of cultures than we imagine with all those crazy Yanks jammed onto the island.