Simmons Bilt Shinki Hikaku Horsehide

[ton312]

Look closely at the details . . . the stitching, hardware and craftsmanship . . . the difference is palpable.

Himel:

SB:

To my eye both are very nice jackets, although I'm not in love with the SB D pocket configuration at all, Dave's more traditional shape is entirely more appealing. I like the side laces and the detachable belt tho. A fixed belt for me is an absolute non-starter. The detail in the Himmel is certainly impressive and quite beautiful, far exceeds the SB but is purely ornamental. I suppose it's all down to where you hang your hat in terms of the level of detail and how important it is to you, and what you are willing to pay for extra stitches and metal rivets. For me, those things just don't make that much difference...I do pay attention to snap placement, lapel shape, sleeve construction and overall structure. And I think both these jackets look pretty darn good in that regard!

 

[Grayland]

SB makes a fine jacket. I've owned two and they were very well built, to the same standard as any of the other makers I have owned. I know they are not viewed favorably around here but based solely on the finished product I found zero fault with either jacket that I had.

Your Simmons Bilt Vintage Racer is just a fantastic looking cafe racer and I've been considering that very model in Shinki for myself.

 

[ton312]

Your Simmons Bilt Vintage Racer is just a fantastic looking cafe racer and I've been considering that very model in Shinki for myself.

I just don't want the OP thinking he's getting himself something less than b/c he's going with SB. We all have our buttons for what's what in a jacket, and our reasons for going with a certain maker or avoiding them... If I'm being honest, the best looking, fitting jacket of it's kind is @Carlos840 's SB cafe racer with the dress collar. It's a masterpiece. I don't see how it could be improved upon and it's a Simmons Bilt. So, yeah they can and do make really nice jackets

 

[Damon B]

Exactly. Lets not forget also that a lot of Aero jackets out there were made by people now at Simmons Bilt.

 

[Robbie79]

Hi, To be honest with you I don't understand why a Himel Heron Shinki (price is approx. 3100 EUR incl. customs, tax, shipping,etc.) is much better in quality and craftmanship than a SB Shinki (price is approx. 800 EUR) and if it really justifies that it is 4 times more expensive than SB jacket? I really like the style of Himel and the quality seems to be superb but I have seen many pics of the (in my eyes) same SB jacket. I simply don't want to spend >3000 EUR for one leather jacket. Perhaps I need to reconsider SB jacket since I don't to do things which are ethical. As you can see it is a difficult decision to find the right jacket and I'm more than thankful that so many give their helpful adivce! Have a nice evening! Kind regards,
Robbie

 

[Superfluous]

Hi, To be honest with you I don't understand why a Himel Heron Shinki (price is approx. 3100 EUR incl. customs, tax, shipping,etc.) is much better in quality and craftmanship than a SB Shinki (price is approx. 800 EUR) and if it really justifies that it is 4 times more expensive than SB jacket?

Robbie, the prices of these jackets are well beyond the point of diminishing returns, and you will never hear me suggest that Himel jackets are a good value or objectively worth the additional cost. Rather, we are deep into the realm of subjective value. While I firmly believe that Himel jackets are better made, with superior craftsmanship, as compared to SB jackets, the price differential is indeed considerable. Only you can decide if the delta in workmanship is worth the significant delta in price. My personal decision is well known, but far from right or universally applicable. To the contrary, everyone must evaluate the factors and reach their own individual decision. This same analysis applies to countless different consumer goods, ranging from cars to watches to wine. While a $300 bottle of wine is likely better than a $30 bottle of wine, is it ten times better? Probably not. Does that mean one should not purchase a $300 bottle of wine? Of course not. If one wants, and can afford, the better bottle of wine, and one perceives subjective value in the more expensive bottle, he/she should buy it even if it is not objectively a good value.

Perhaps I need to reconsider SB jacket since I don't to do things which are ethical.

This is an entirely different issue, yet equally important. I wholeheartedly agree that one should refrain from supporting certain businesses that engage in unethical and/or wrongful business practices. Again, this is a subjective determination and there is no objectively correct course of action.

 

[Sloan1874]

Shinki does seem to be a bit less consistent than CXL. I know Aero decided not make it one of their leathers after receiving samples that were less than convincing.
As far as SB goes, I'm not sure I'd want to pay top dollar for what they produce. As Super has pointed out, you might get a nice leather but, ethics and morals aside, the finish just isn't there. Moreover, I've heard that they're a lot tighter on their returns policy nowadays, so if you are brave enough to go with SB then I'd go canny with any modifications lest you find yourself landed with something you have to offload on eBay yourself.

 

[navetsea]

I have no business in this thread since I have no experience of all makers mentioned, but just wanted to say
that guy who made V2 rocket was the same guy who made the rocket that sent astronauts to the moon

 

[Sloan1874]

That's a false equivalency that has absolutely no bearing on this conversation.

 

[Plumbline]

I've had / have a number of Alexander / SB jackets ... and have one currently on order.
I've had / have a number of Aero jackets ( during and post Will Lauder era)
I've had / Have a number of Lost Worlds jackets
I've had / have a number of Eastman jackets
I've had / have Vanson jackets
I've had / have Schott jackets
I've had / have Levis jackets
I've had / have RRL and RL jackets
I've had a number of RMNZ and RMC jackets
I've had a number of Goodwear jackets
I've had a number of Bill Kelso jackets

( all of the above being leather jackets that is ... And by no means an exhaustive list ... Those are just the repro styles )


They all have pluses ... they all have minuses .... they're all pretty damn fine jackets ... from the main repro manufacturers I've had very few "bad" jackets ... in over 100 jackets now. You pays your money and you takes your choice !

I have recently received samples of both the Shinki HH and the Clayton HH ... they're both superb leathers and very different to CXL or any of the Horween products TBH .... I opted for the Clayton HH. It just felt nicer for the application I have in mind ( Café Racer) ... and I was a bit disappointed in my last Horween jacket in Black CXL ( 2nd hand but the finish was definitely "teacore" in nature so it got moved on .. it's interesting as my SB Roadster ( from their sale pages) is similar but not quite as "fragile" it's almost dark brown now but started black it just hasn't been so bad re. wear in the high spots) . Regardinbg the new order, the delivery was right for me, the quality is right for me, the level of customisation I was able to build in ( and pay for) was right for me and the price was right for me.

I've never had an issue .. and I mean never ... had an issue with SB either from a service or a quality ( returns) perspective even when the issue was my original error they were both accommodating and very professional in their handling ... it was my error ... I paid for it .. but they were more than professional in remedying it. Indeed they have been willing to remedy/repair 2nd hand Aero and Lost Worlds jackets modifications which Aero weren't interested in and which would have been too costly to send back to LW !). Equally I have never had an issue with Aero's service or returns process ( during or post the Will Lauder era) ..... I've found Stu at Lost Worlds to be helpful and professional .... Gary Eastman has been a gentleman in all of my dealings with him.

I guess I've been lucky ... and long may it continue.

I am also possibly the most unpartisan of buyers ... I'm not brand loyal and I'm a bit agnostic re. who I buy from. I avoid the politics and issues of jacket manufacturers ... they want my money, I want their product .. it's a commercial transaction in my world. I don't expect their loyalty, they shouldn't expect mine ( I like them all TBH)

Back to Shinki and Clayton HH

The Shinki certainly looks like it will develop more graining, the topcoat is slightly more obvious ( not plastic .. just more "A2" like ) and it's slightly less uniform. The Clayton is very slightly thinner ( this could have been just the sample sections I received) but has a more uniform surface and less "obvious" topcoat .... I really liked it ... so I ordered it.

As many have said .. get samples ...... crease them, scrunch them and try to picture them made into a jacket ( this is really hard IMHO ). Look at similar jackets, ask people who have similar jackets. Last but not least measure yourself really carefully and look at the jacket measurements very carefully .. bearing in mind that measurements only tell some of the story re. fit and not the whole story.

Other than that .. enjoy the process and the journey

 

[jon11]

Own a couple of jackets made by Johnson leather in Horween Rockford and Horween Vermont expresso horsehides. Easy worn with loads of character.

 

[Sloan1874]

"I am also possibly the most unpartisan of buyers ."

Really? Well, I suppose if we've all suffered memory-wiping bangs to the head, I suppose we could be persuaded that this is true, otherwise...

 

[Plumbline]

No really .. my leather jacket collection isn't limited to Aero Sloanie .... all are welcome, most get worn and some hang around, few stay ........ Those that do are the ones I currently like the most

 

[Sloan1874]

Owning a few jackets by a couple of manufacturers hardly mitigates that you were a business partner of a convicted fraudster who, having ripped off customers and his employer, went on to co-found a business based on patterns stolen from his previous company. And throughout the whole of that drama and since then, you've regularly posted jackets made by one particular company and offered advice on all their many and varied leathers and styles.
I'm willing to be corrected, but I don't think that really is the dictionary definition of 'nonpartisan'.

 

[nick123]

Owning a few jackets by a couple of manufacturers hardly mitigates that you were a business partner of a convicted fraudster who, having ripped off customers and his employer, went on to co-found a business based on patterns stolen from his previous company. And throughout the whole of that drama and since then, you've regularly posted jackets made by one particular company and offered advice on all their many and varied leathers and styles.
I'm willing to be corrected, but I don't think that really is the dictionary definition of 'nonpartisan'.

I think that was where Navetsea was going with his Von Braun comment...

 

[A-1]

I think Robbie has enough input to choose his leather and maker now. Contact them, get your samples. Get your measurements from a tailor and be confident with your decision. You are the one who has to wear it in good health and with a clean conscience.

 

[Damon B]

Blimey, who'd have thought buying a jacket would be so stressful, plenty for Robbie79 to think about there. I really do hope you get what you want, thats what YOU want.

 

[ButteMT61]

Blimey, who'd have thought buying a jacket would be so stressful, plenty for Robbie79 to think about there. I really do hope you get what you want, thats what YOU want.

You must be new here - oops, I see you are...anyways, there is no jacket with no stress. It's why we're here. A 12-step place of sorts for those of us with likely many issues, and this one in common

 

[Damon B]

Oops, yes, sorry about that!

 

[Plumbline]

Owning a few jackets by a couple of manufacturers hardly mitigates that you were a business partner of a convicted fraudster who, having ripped off customers and his employer, went on to co-found a business based on patterns stolen from his previous company. And throughout the whole of that drama and since then, you've regularly posted jackets made by one particular company and offered advice on all their many and varied leathers and styles.
I'm willing to be corrected, but I don't think that really is the dictionary definition of 'nonpartisan'.

Dear oh dear ... that's almost "News of the World" reporting Sloanie

1. I was a business customer of Aero Leather Clothing ( as were my partners Ace Café Limited ... and I AM a partner of Ace Café still)... check the facts, you've obviously seen draft contracts .. they are facts .... you know those things which are factual ... and stop placing guilt by association, it's wrong ... but then that's predominately how the 5th estate work isn't it .
2. I post leather jackets from all companies ( and it's more than a couple .. which is 1 more than your good self ) ... again check the facts Sloanie .... you know those things you press chaps are so fond of ..... look at the list above, all factual.
3. Don't let your personal bias cloud your judgement .. just because I buy from SB doesn't make me a bad person, nor any other person who buys from them .... it just makes me unpartisan as I suggested Nor does it mean I am Will Lauder or that I condone what Will did, I don't. Again though, you have to stick to the facts, just because I knew a thief ... doesn't make me a thief.

The OP asked an opinion on leather and once again you dragged his post down to a very unhelpful place .... it's your modus operandi ...... it's well known, it's well demonstrated ... but just sometimes it's a little bit unhelpful. Just MHO

Now what's your view on Shinki & Clayton HH .. oh wait .... what's your view on Shinki .... oh wait ... what's your view on Aero supplied Shinki n??????