Simmons Bilt Jacket Underway

[Downunder G Man]

I bought one of my Schott Café racer jackets from Drifter productions. From his eBay listings

My 641HH , posted California to Australia no worries. Found the guy to be AOK so what did I miss ?

(Apologies for the thread hijack !)

Oh , and is he a "chancer" as in "fancy dancer" haha...from a once was Jock downunder

 

[ai00344]

Personally I like the Simmons Bilt stuff. @Sheepdog149 can we still expect some photos of this sucker?

 

[Emwonk]

I bought one of my Schott Café racer jackets from Drifter productions. From his eBay listings

My 641HH , posted California to Australia no worries. Found the guy to be AOK so what did I miss ?

(Apologies for the thread hijack !)

Oh , and is he a "chancer" as in "fancy dancer" haha...from a once was Jock downunder

I'm new too. I did a search based on my interest in a Simmons Bilt Drifter and discovered hours of reading about jacket drama involving court cases and jackets sold as horse when actually cow. Aero is beloved on this forum and it looks like the quality and the customer service might merit love. If I read right .... Somebody left Aero and employees left with that person to start a competitor company. Later, Aero found out cow was sold as horse and made it right to much Fedora acclaim. That person was convicted of taking stuff from Aero and did or is doing jail time. That company then changed its name to Simmons Bilt but their reputation was tainted on this forum. It looks like they might make good jackets at a lower price, but I don't have the patience to figure out whether any bad actors are still employed at Simmons Bilt. Entire threads were wiped out, with the usual homages about forum owners having the right, etc. Maybe the others who left Aero with the convicted person had no idea about the shenanigans. (What I don't get is why they say something about Oakland CA when they are not in Oakland. No offense to Oakland, but that isn't the most exotic of the Bay Area cities to name drop in location branding.

I never imagined this much mystery could be possible about jackets.

The weird thing is I want a really nice jacket I will own forever, not acceptance here. But it still bothers me that strangers here would not like my choice.

Hopefuly I will find the perfect Highwayman used before winter. Or people at SB will read this and PM me with reassurance doing business with them supports free enterprise and competition, fair and square.

 

[Woodyear]

I'm new too. I did a search based on my interest in a Simmons Bilt Drifter and discovered hours of reading about jacket drama involving court cases and jackets sold as horse when actually cow. Aero is beloved on this forum and it looks like the quality and the customer service might merit love. If I read right .... Somebody left Aero and employees left with that person to start a competitor company. Later, Aero found out cow was sold as horse and made it right to much Fedora acclaim. That person was convicted of taking stuff from Aero and did or is doing jail time. That company then changed its name to Simmons Bilt but their reputation was tainted on this forum. It looks like they might make good jackets at a lower price, but I don't have the patience to figure out whether any bad actors are still employed at Simmons Bilt. Entire threads were wiped out, with the usual homages about forum owners having the right, etc. Maybe the others who left Aero with the convicted person had no idea about the shenanigans. (What I don't get is why they say something about Oakland CA when they are not in Oakland. No offense to Oakland, but that isn't the most exotic of the Bay Area cities to name drop in location branding.

I never imagined this much mystery could be possible about jackets.

The weird thing is I want a really nice jacket I will own forever, not acceptance here. But it still bothers me that strangers here would not like my choice.

Hopefuly I will find the perfect Highwayman used before winter. Or people at SB will read this and PM me with reassurance doing business with them supports free enterprise and competition, fair and square.

The reason they're labeled Oakland CA is because they bought the rights to use the name "Simmons Bilt" which was a defunct clothing company which used to operate out of Oakland CA. You can definitely feel fine doing business with Simmons Bilt, they make great stuff and are easy to work with.

 

[eugenesque]

I've never heard of a road scholar jacket. Completely blaming my ignorance for this. But I quite like the design of it! Any idea why it's called road scholar? Don't think it's linked to the non profit organisation.

 

[Edward]

I'm new too. I did a search based on my interest in a Simmons Bilt Drifter and discovered hours of reading about jacket drama involving court cases and jackets sold as horse when actually cow. Aero is beloved on this forum and it looks like the quality and the customer service might merit love. If I read right .... Somebody left Aero and employees left with that person to start a competitor company. Later, Aero found out cow was sold as horse and made it right to much Fedora acclaim. That person was convicted of taking stuff from Aero and did or is doing jail time. That company then changed its name to Simmons Bilt but their reputation was tainted on this forum. It looks like they might make good jackets at a lower price, but I don't have the patience to figure out whether any bad actors are still employed at Simmons Bilt.

The backstory is more or less that. Will Lauder was, many years ago, hired by Ken Caulder at Aero, trained up, and eventually became Aero's MD when Ken went into retirement around 2004. During 2011, Ken discovered there was some problem with the books; looking them over to help Will out, it was uncovered that Will had been sending out jackets made with Horween steerhide to customers who had requested the Horween CXL FQHH, and passing them off as the latter. (Horween steer is an excellent hide of no lesser quality, but nonetheless not what the customers had ordered. Will's motivation seems to have been that it was cheaper to use steer rather than horse.) Long story short, a review of the books at this point led to the discovery that Will had sold £50K worth of Aero stock on ebay and pocketed the money. The matter was handed to the police, who in turn discovered a further £150,000 of Aero stock in Will's house. By this point, Will had quit Aero to manage Alexander Leathers, founded by Sandy Alexander who had built and then sold off the Schuh training shoe shop chain, and was looking for something else. They convinced a number of Aero staffers to leave Aero and join them. Will Lauder's employment at Alexander Leathers ended when he was convicted of theft and sentenced to eighteen months in prison. No charges were brought against anyone else in relation to Lauder's crimes. At that point, the company rebranded as Simmons-Bilt, obviously hoping to put the controversy behind them. However, it had emerged during Will's trial that he had made copies of a significant number of Aero's patterns, and that these were apparently used by AL. Briefly, by law any company can copy the look of a jacket: anyone can copy a Highwayman to a T (though they can't call it a Highwayman, as Aero own the trademark), but what they are not permitted to do is to copy the patterns Aero use to make one, as those patterns are protected by copyright. While the evidence that this was done was raised in the court case, it was not the direct subject of the prosecution, and the criminal court did not make any decision with regards to liability for copyright infringement. For the latter to be decided, Aero would have to file a civil suit against the other company, which would be extremely expensive and often isn't worth the hassle in practical terms. The models which appear to be based on those patterns continue to be in production, which is an issue for some jacket buyers, while others are not bothered such concepts.

Ultimately, when you get into a hobby like this, you will always find that some brands and suppliers become much-loved over a period of years, while others never match that level of success. From a consumer's point of view, the best thing to do is find out as much as you can all round, and then make your own choice about where you spend your money.

 

[Sloan1874]

Excellent precis.

 

[Hammerklavier]

I doubt anybody would still consider SB after read that story

 

[Harris HTM]

I doubt anybody would still consider SB after read that story

This story is known for years around here but believe me, this does not deter people from buying. Well, it is their money...

 

[Hammerklavier]

This story is known for years around here but believe me, this does not deter people from buying. Well, it is their money...

That's my first time to got details of the story, as for me, because it is my money, there is no way to support them, not a penny.

 

[Thuggee]

I may not be a lawyer appears to be many arm chair lawyers here though has anyone ever considered that SB or Alexander leathers were just as equally misled by this Will fellow as Aero were, nothings actually been proven against SB it's all here say if you ask me, anyone can say anything in court proofing something is another story.

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[Otter]

I may not be a lawyer appears to be many arm chair lawyers here though has anyone ever considered that SB or Alexander leathers were just as equally misled by this Will fellow as Aero were, nothings actually been proven against SB it's all here say if you ask me, anyone can say anything in court proofing something is another story.

It may come as a surprise to you , but some of the members on here are Lawyer Lawyers, Superfluous and Edward to name two. They probably own armchairs as well. Maybe even leather ones.

 

[Monitor]

I may not be a lawyer appears to be many arm chair lawyers here though has anyone ever considered that SB or Alexander leathers were just as equally misled by this Will fellow as Aero were, nothings actually been proven against SB it's all here say if you ask me, anyone can say anything in court proofing something is another story.

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Edward is actually a lawyer.

That aside, if you've seen a SB jacket, you've got all the proof you need.

 

[Otter]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Edward specialise in Intellectual Property Law ?

 

[Thuggee]

Trial by forum my point is nothing been proven against SB in court seems unfair to call people thieves based on this everyone has the right to defend themselves as there is always 2 sides to a story.


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[l0fielectronic]

That is a well written synopsis of the events, When someone in another thread asked about why there was some ill feeling toward the brand here I thought of trying to write something to explain the events, but I couldn't have covered everything so succinctly and clearly. Well done.

 

[ButteMT61]

You know who you are...faces hidden to protect the dense.

 

[Thuggee]

You know who you are...faces hidden to protect the dense.

If this is directed at me fine I'm a big boy I'm not sure how the law works in the UK but in Australia if I stole what Will did from his employer I would be In jail as well he got what he deserved, If SB were involved in the theft , jackets, patterns whatever he went to jail for why was no one else charged/sent to jail?


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[ButteMT61]

^^ Geared towards nobody and anybody that thinks nothing happened.
There's more info on this site in regards to the clown and his sideshow so just look and read. I don't care one way or another who believes it, who buys their gear, or who likes or dislikes them. I base my opinion of them based on the facts that have been presented here for all to see. As well as other sites. Enjoy your gear.
In the same regard, I'd not tell you who to vote for, who to date, etc. but it doesn't mean that your selfie with ANY Kardashian isn't going to get attention...

 

[zebedee]

Never had a problem with either company- it seems that SB are tarred with Lauder's brush in perpetuity.