Shoulder width of a leather-jacket

[Don Tomaso]

Hi folks,

browsing through pics here on TFL and regarding the fit of my own LHB. Very often I see the seams at the shoulders sag quite a bit because apparently the width of the shoulders is too wide. Let me give you an example:

As you can see, the shoulders are well within the the boundaries defined by the attachment-points of the sleeves. The first pic is the one taken later, you can see that the shoulders started sagging in the time between, unfortunately, given the construction of the LHB, this could not be rectified. In my book, this is about 2" too wide overall. On the other hand, most jackets I see here seem to fit the same way and get rave reviews like "great fit, perfect etc.". Normally, I would prefer to have the the seems exactly at the shoulder-joint. With my LHB, it is the "swing-back" folds sitting there.
So, what would be the consensus here? I'm in the process of ordering a new jacket from Aero, the 40ties-halfbelt, and I'm unsure on how to proceed.

 

[majormajor]

For me, the shoulders in the pics are too wide. In fact, the whole jacket looks big, although many on here would disagree. Fit, I guess, is a very personal thing.

The pics of Butte's new Goodwear, in another thread, show just how I like a jacket to fit:

Perfect fit, and perfect shoulders!

 

[Rudie]

To me for a perfect fit the shoulder seam should be exactly at the shoulder joint.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I too think that you may want to consider dropping down one size with a new jacket for an overall better fit. The one in the photo doesn't look bad at all..but..keeping your other specs the same only going smaller might suit you better!
HD

 

[schitzo]

I think it looks best when the shoulders are, as you say, bang on and with no overhang.

But this aesthetically pleasing fit may not be the most comfortable, particularly so for the longer more generously cut patters, such as your LHB

 

[jlanderson]

I too think that you may want to consider dropping down one size with a new jacket for an overall better fit. The one in the photo doesn't look bad at all..but..keeping your other specs the same only going smaller might suit you better!
HD

A sizing question, HD. What if you're going to be wearing a medium weight sweater beneath the jacket? Scott's new Ventura is the Holy Grail of everything, but I doubt he'd be wearing a sweater with it in SoCal. How would you account for that if it were your jacket? With my Aero orders, I've been vexed by the shoulder thing (closer to 40/41 R there) and a "rounder" fit in the midriff, thanks to that post-50 metabolism thing. Plus, I like a sweater beneath many of my jackets.

Thanks. And hope you all have a good St. Paddy's Day in Indiana!

 

[Edward]

That would be my first question: what do you intend to wear under it. For wearing as an overcoat, with a big sweater, the jacket in the first photo doesn't look bad to me. For wearing as a jacket, over just a shirt, I'd definitely be looking at downsizing.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

jlanderson
Well..comfort surely means alot (everything?). I'm just going by your pic..and then comparing how my jackets fit.
I remember purchasing my first Aero(Highwayman) off of Aero's sale page years ago. It was a return from Germany that had been lost in the mail for quite some time. The order had alraedy been filled again so Aero put the 'found' jacket on the 'Sale' page. It was actually a new FQHH jacket that had just been lost in a box for months. The customer of the German outlet had ordered longer sleeves..and in my size. When I opened the box,I was floored by the quality and the HH. Trying it on..it seemed to fit 'perfect'. However..after wearing it around for awhile..it seemed tight(somewhat uncomfortable)underarm across the bottom part of my shoulder blades. After a day or so of wearing it around..I emailed Ken with my small complaint. His reply was 'give it some time'! 'If it doesn't relax..we'll take care of you'...(but it will). I wasn't in a hurry to send it back. I realized that the next size up would make the shoulders wider as well. I received it in the fall..and as the winter became colder I wore an insulated vest underneath it for a while. Finally after several weeks (Ken was right)..that tight area..and the HH stiffness had relaxed and became more comfortable. I could wear a sweater(and do often)..and the shoulders are still squared up nicely. Of course many customers couldn't live with that for a minute..and would have sent it back for the next size up(which would mean bigger everywhere). Since then I have ordered all my Aeros using my measurements in that same size..but also just where I like the body and sleeve length. My best advice would be to alert Aero that you want a certain midriff allowance.
If you really don't think that a sweater would work under the next size down...then it may be that you must stick with the same size as you have.
What I would do is send that photo to Aero along with your concerns 'Attention Ken' for best advice.
Good Luck
HD

 

[Don Tomaso]

For me, the shoulders in the pics are too wide. In fact, the whole jacket looks big, although many on here would disagree. Fit, I guess, is a very personal thing.

The pics of Butte's new Goodwear, in another thread, show just how I like a jacket to fit:

...

Perfect fit, and perfect shoulders!

Well, I would disagree. In fact, it was Butte's new Goodwear-pics that inspired my thread. The jacket is super-cool, but at a closer look you see the seams are about one inch outside the shoulders, a bit like my LHB when I received it, second pic. Once the leather becomes less stiff the sleeves will sag a bit, I would guess.
On the other hand, I'm a bit unsure whether the jacket will be uncomfortable with the shoulders narrower. Well, I'll email Holly about it and listen to her advise. The 40ties HB is intended to serve as a summer-jacket anyway.

 

[jlanderson]

You're absolutely right, HD. My Long Half Belt, in FQHH, was a tad constricted in the chest area with a sweater, but the more I've worn it, the more it's loosened up and conformed to my body, like Holly said it would. Same with a Hercules I got off the sale page, like you, and, similar to yours, mine was a production overrun for Ken Taurus.

With another jacket, again in FQHH, but with a Locharron tartan (not alpaca or moleskin) lining, there's more room where it needs to be for me. Some folks might say it is too roomy in the chest and/or shoulders, but to each his own, I guess.

Thanks for your insights, Van. Appreciate it! And also much appreciative of all I've learned re: leather jackets from reading your and Scott's posts. All you've said about Ken has been dead-on ... he's about the nicest and most helpful retailer I've dealt with. Well, in addition to Peter King, of Bookster Tweed!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Sorry jlanderson
I think I was somehow mixing up your post with Don Tamaso's photo. Hopefully some can get my drift,though...

HD

 

[Sloan1874]

Interesting what you're saying there, HD. I tried on a sale Aero A2 at the factory in a size 36 - it was knocked down to £250 because of a slight manufacturing irregularity - but rejected it because it was just a bit too tight across the shoulders. I wonder if I did myself out of a bargain there :eusa_doh:

 

[ButteMT61]

A couple of things...The seam is on the shoulder - the way I have my arms in pocket just makes it look otherwise. It could not be more spot-on. But of course, it's new, stiff hide and with the cut, nobody has a shoulder that is that exact angle. Trust me, it's perfect. Now, as to that fit. I could not layer under it. In fact, I'm going to put on a sweatshirt to see if that even fits. I did this on purpose. All my other jackets have room for layering. But in SoCal, I rarely get to take advantage, and the jackets feel too-big more often than not. I wanted and got one that literally fits like a glove. If you get a jacket to e versatile, you get it larger for layering. If not, you do what I did. In warmer climates, it makes more sense. The short I have on is a very thin blue cotton shirt that I normally wear in the summer. I now have to try on some heavier shirts to see what happens! HTH

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Interesting what you're saying there, HD. I tried on a sale Aero A2 at the factory in a size 36 - it was knocked down to £250 because of a slight manufacturing irregularity - but rejected it because it was just a bit too tight across the shoulders. I wonder if I did myself out of a bargain there :eusa_doh:

Not neccessarily..not really sure. Some areas get more action from arm movement,etc..than others. The shoulders kinda seem to more or less just sit there..to me. There is such a thing as the trim and tailored fitted look..and beyond that ..too tight. I just think that some tend to go oversized for immediate comfort..rather than realizing how(especially Aero's waxy FQHH)can relax..shape and mold with movement and wear.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Not neccessarily..not really sure. Some areas get more action from arm movement,etc..than others. The shoulders kinda seem to more or less just sit there..to me. There is such a thing as the trim and tailored fitted look..and beyond that ..too tight. I just think that some tend to go oversized for immediate comfort..rather than realizing how(especially Aero's waxy FQHH)can relax..shape and mold with movement and wear. HD

100% right. Shoulders don't tend to change much in my experiences, so you either get it close or too large. Too tight will almost certainly never get better over time. BT maybe if I wore just one jacket daily for years that would be different...

 

[schitzo]

I'm in the process of ordering a new jacket from Aero, the 40ties-halfbelt, and I'm unsure on how to proceed.

Me too Tomasso, I mean I already did, at the start of Feb I think. Anyhow, I just wonder, what do you know of the fit for this jacket? Specifically is it 'oversized' like the 50s halfbelt or 'undersized' like the 30s - or is this supposed to be a happy medium between the two? Whatever the fit I think the pioneer is a real beauty.. roll on August!

 

[ButteMT61]

Me too Tomasso, I mean I already did, at the start of Feb I think. Anyhow, I just wonder, what do you know of the fit for this jacket? Specifically is it 'oversized' like the 50s halfbelt or 'undersized' like the 30s - or is this supposed to be a happy medium between the two? Whatever the fit I think the pioneer is a real beauty.. roll on August!

The Aero 50's HBD I got is oversized in comparison, but not as much as the one up top in this thread. It's comfortable though and allows for layering. It all depends on your needs and how you plan to wear it I think.Van and Fanch have some great fitting Aeros. Many are not as form fitting. Joakim just got a great one too (there's others but those come to mind).

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Well..I think your new GW is a Butte-iful fit and style,Scott.
If I was in the market again..I would head directly to JC's doorstep..!! No doubt.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Well..I think your new GW is a Butte-iful fit and style,Scott. If I was in the market again..I would head directly to JC's doorstep..!! No doubt. HD

Thanks again Van. Remember that Aero HWM I got ~18 months back in black steer? You guys gave me honest feedback on it as being too wide in the shoulders. I loved that jacket but you were 100% right. I hated selling and coming to terms with that. But once you get a jacket made right for you, you see why it's worth the effort and heartache to do it right.It's taken me five+ years of jacketeering to get here. No easy task and you have to learn to listen to others to get there.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks again Van. Remember that Aero HWM I got ~18 months back in black steer? You guys gave me honest feedback on it as being too wide in the shoulders. I loved that jacket but you were 100% right. I hated selling and coming to terms with that. But once you get a jacket made right for you, you see why it's worth the effort and heartache to do it right.It's taken me five+ years of jacketeering to get here. No easy task and you have to learn to listen to others to get there.

So true. It's disheartening for me to see those who generally post that certain jacket photos look great (just to always be agreeable and what they think is kind) rather than honest..when it could often look so much better. I think the thrill of finally arriving at a great fitting jacket can outweigh disappointments in the past.
I had probaby one of Aero's first black 'Vintage' HH Highwaymans. Heavy hide..but relaxed and comfortable right out of the box. A new immediate customer return I picked up from the Aero sale page. Extremely grainy and unusual from a small batch of hides. Fit was absolutely perfect..except..the sleeves ended at the finger knuckles. I posted pics..I think on the VLJ. Everyone commented that it was surely a beautiful jacket...but the sleevelength kept bothering me. Even my wife said they were OK. Finally I received a PM from a member who had posted raving at how nice the jacket was. Now he said he wanted to be honest that the sleeves just really looked too long! Finally my Wife admitted that she just didn't want to tell me since the rest of the jacket was so nice. Jeesh! It did sell quick since it was so unusual. I still miss that hide..but at least I'm not walking around looking like a Dork...well..not quite as bad,anyhow. Thanks to a little honesty.
HD