Sad Sight: A Sagging Homburg

[W. Buchanan]

To wear a homburg properly, one must begin of course with a proper homburg. A proper homburg, naturally, should be as stiff as a Puritan's moral code and equally dark, if not to say 'clean'.

It is a tragic sight, then, when a homburg once proud and rigid, becomes lightly stained and begins -- with equal subtlety -- to sag. For me, both stain and subtle sag came together.

A water stain on a black homburg is infuriating for its near invisibility; but, once noticed, the blemish is louder than a ketchup stain on a cream linen suit. For me, the sag followed the stain:

Infuriated by the stain, I sought to diffuse and dissipate it by holding that area of the hat over the spout of a boiling pot of water. This failed, and now the stain has diffused, but not dissipated. The situation now is that there is a water stain on the side of my black homburg's crown, and the stained area has lost its rigidity and is beginning to sag.

As such, I put it to you men, how best to restore the dark, uniform rigidity to my hat?


Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[Lefty]

A proper homburg, naturally, should be as stiff as a Puritan's moral code and equally dark

I don't think either premise is correct. Homburgs are typically soft and come in nearly every color in which any other soft felt hats have been made.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Homburgs have soft crowns, but bowlers (derbies) have hard crowns. I forgot the exact method, but Brad's Derby Deconstruction thread tells about it. Unless you're talking about an open-crowned homburg or the much harder and lower crowned derby/bowler, I concur with Lefty; we're missing something.

Bowler

Homburgs

Various images stolen from the Brim Curls thread.

 

[Brad Bowers]

In my experience, homburg crowns are usually slightly stiffer than most soft felts, but not so hard as a Derby. The brims do have a lot more shellac than the typical soft felt hat, though.

One way to get rid of the uneven stain is to give the hat a complete naphtha bath, though that is at the extreme end. Another trick is to even out the color with a light wipe of fractionated coconut oil using a scotch pad, but it's a technique that requires practice to avoid getting too much oil on the hat.

Probably the best idea is to get some Scout's dark felt hat cleaner and a hat cleaning sponge to remove the staining.

As for the sagging, the heat from the steam should have reactivated the shellac, and if it didn't an iron will do the trick. I don't know how well it would work without a crown block, but it's worth a shot.

Brad

 

[fluteplayer07]

Never heard of the oil method before, and I always thought ironing was a no-no. Are these special methods for more heavily shellac-ed hats?




Cheers,

 

[W. Buchanan]

I don't think either premise is correct. Homburgs are typically soft and come in nearly every color in which any other soft felt hats have been made.

Then I really don't know what to say. It's a homburg, and it's very stiff, and it's black.

Additionally, as they came about before fedoras, homburgs are generally associated with the darker clothing of the Nineteenth century, and due to their weight they are somewhat more of a Winter hat. Not to say they are only worn in dark colors, nor that they are worn solely in Winter, but I think the association is stronger, and wearing a casual homburg in gay colors is even more foppish than a gaily colored fedora, simply because the former is more deviant than the latter.

 

[Tomasso]

the darker clothing of the Nineteenth century.

I think clothing was more colorful than black and white photos would lead us to believe.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Never heard of the oil method before, and I always thought ironing was a no-no. Are these special methods for more heavily shellac-ed hats?

No, the oil method is a old-time hatter's trick that works on any hat. Sssshhh, mum's the word, though, as I don't think I was supposed to spill the beans. It is really effective on black hats.

As for the iron, no I don't recommend ironing a hat unless it's getting a complete reblock, and then it gets ironed anyway. But lightly hitting the affected area with an iron won't hurt anything, and should be enough to reactivate the shellac. A good brushing will fluff the nap back up.

There is a spray-on hat stiffener available that is essentially shellac dissolved in denatured alcohol, but I find it's better to spray it on the inside of the crown so that it doesn't affect the finish on the hat. Which means, of course, removing the liner first. So I'd try heat activation first.

Brad

 

[Lefty]

Additionally, as they came about before fedoras

I think you might be jumping the gun a bit, and posting what you believe, rather than what the facts tend to show. Check out a few threads, including the one entitled It's About Time We Define "Fedora", and you'll pick up a few tid-bits. I certainly did. One thing that you'll come to find is that the homburg was a relatively informal hat when it first appeared.

 

[W. Buchanan]

Indeed, the homburg did begin as a relatively casual hat. But, of course, it's a platitude that every generation's idea of 'formal' tends to the last generation's casual: there is much overlap betwix 'old fashion' and 'formal'. Of course, one interesting tid-bit about the homburg is that it's by far the most popular hat to see on the heads of the stodgiest world leaders from the Great War through the 'Forties and 'Fifties. Look at Asquith, Lloyd George, Chamberlain, Churchill, &c. in Britain, and Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, &c. in America. All stiff homburgs.

 

[Yeps]

All stiff homburgs.

Am I missing something? This looks like it could just as easily be a rather soft hat, and most of the vintage homburgs that people around here have have proven to be so.

 

[Andykev]

Well, I only have left about 60 or 70 hats in my collection, one being a Stetson gray Homburg. Exact copy of what Al Pachino wore in the Godfather movie. It is a soft felt hat, a bit thicker felt, with the bound edge which makes it seem as you say, "stiff". It is the same as any Stetson fedora of the period.

I actually see mostly the gray Homburgs...they compliment most top coats dark or light. The Homburg, in my opinion, is a more "formal" hat than the fedora.

As to your stain, I suggest that you apply Naptha with a soaked terry cloth rag and using a circular motion, wipe out your stain.
And as to your "sag", I suggest the kettle to steam the hat. The Homburg lends itself to requiring a particular hat block due to the compound curve and bound edge. Maybe spend a few bucks to support a hatter to keep the trade alive, and have your hat returned to you as new?

Good luck, and welcome to the Lounge.

 

[rlk]

There's a certain amount of brim tension from the curl and binding but I have NO Homburgs(loosely applied definition) pre-WW2 that have any more stiffener than a standard soft felt. There are really two lines of hats we now might regard as Homburgs: The soft Alpine with a curled brim(marketed as the original Fedora) and what one might call the Dented Derby with a stiffer form(Italian Lobbia origin). Later American Homburgs and British examples seem to be hybrids--lightly stiffened(Stetson St. Regis and H.C.A i.e). Most Continental models are generally softer.

 

[mayserwegener]

I would say the later German - Austrian ones (in general) fall into the same catagory as the later US and British ones (based on my limited sample).

 

[mayserwegener]

Am I missing something? This looks like it could just as easily be a rather soft hat, and most of the vintage homburgs that people around here have have proven to be so.

It is definitely a soft felt hat but it is hard to judge crown pliability. Some Homburgs from this time period are very soft to the touch but the crowns are not pliable by design. They will take a center crease but are not kind to side dents unless steamed in.

Both of these are by P. & C. Habig and from the same time period. The first one (1951) has a very soft pliable crown and easily takes side dents. The second one (1952) is very soft to the touch but the crown is not as pliable. Both are of similar quality.

 

[Dinerman]

Additionally, as they came about before fedoras, homburgs are generally associated with the darker clothing of the Nineteenth century, and due to their weight they are somewhat more of a Winter hat.

Homburgs came in all weight felts. I can't say, though, that in the several hundred hats I've owned I've noticed a huge difference in stiffness between vintage homburgs and fedoras. If anything the earlier ('20s, '30s) homburgs are softer felts. They were also made in straw- I've seen some lovely Montecristi and Milan homburgs.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Hey, Buchanan - just out of curiosity, is your homburg one of those modern, stiff wool "Designer Collection"/"Godfather" jobs... or is it a vintage fur felt hat?

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

If anything the earlier ('20s, '30s) homburgs are softer felts.

Same experience here.

 

[Aureliano]

Hey, Buchanan - just out of curiosity, is your homburg one of those modern, stiff wool "Designer Collection"/"Godfather" jobs... or is it a vintage fur felt hat?

Just what I was about to inquire.

 

[mayserwegener]

There were Homburgs (this is also the case with Fedoras) made not to have pliable crowns. It has nothing to do with the quality of the felt or hat.