Ruminations on Feltfan's hat and the Cav Edge

[Brad Bowers]

New topic, since I don't want to offer further divergence in the thread on Art's Root-inspired hat!

I went back to Cavanagh's original 1913 patent to refresh my memory, and something jumped out that I missed before. He states that his edge also works for stiff hats like the Derby, which cannot have a raw (or natural, as he calls it) edge, because the shellac in the felt shows as a white streak where the brim is cut. I didn't realize that the binding on stiff hats was to cover the shellac!

If Cavanagh considered putting them on Derbies, it stands to reason that Homburgs could have them as well. How many of these styles featured his edge, we may never know. Feltfan, that curl could very well be original! In either case, you've got a prime example of the earlier form of the edge. If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I'd love to see it.

In the patent granted in 1931, Cavanagh is listed as the assignor to the Crofut & Knapp Company.

Something I would like to know is if Cavanagh licensed the edge prior to 1931, or if he kept it exclusive to Crofut & Knapp. In what is either coincidental timing or shrewd business acumen, Cavanagh's second patent was filed in 1929, the year the first patent expired. Was the second patent, covering the "improved edge," meant more for economic reasons than out of a real need to improve the Cavanagh Edge? This would certainly be true if the licensing program steadily increased after 1931. More hats with his edge seemed to have survived from the 1930s onward than the earlier hats, but their scarcity could be due several factors, from exclusivity, or just plain age.
I'm leaning towards Cavanagh being an economic opportunist, but I can only support that hypothesis if I can ever find the appropriate sales records.

Brad

 

[feltfan]

Almost missed this new thread...

I didn't realize that the binding on stiff hats was to cover the shellac!

If Cavanagh considered putting them on Derbies, it stands to reason that Homburgs could have them as well. How many of these styles featured his edge, we may never know. Feltfan, that curl could very well be original! In either case, you've got a prime example of the earlier form of the edge. If I ever get out to your neck of the woods, I'd love to see it.

You would, of course, be more than welcome. If you are considering
writing a history piece on Cavanagh, I might be talked into sending the
hat your way.

Note that my hat is extremely soft. Softer than most of my
fedoras. So not a typical homburg that way.

In the patent granted in 1931, Cavanagh is listed as the assignor to the Crofut & Knapp Company.

Something I would like to know is if Cavanagh licensed the edge prior to 1931, or if he kept it exclusive to Crofut & Knapp. In what is either coincidental timing or shrewd business acumen, Cavanagh's second patent was filed in 1929, the year the first patent expired. Was the second patent, covering the "improved edge," meant more for economic reasons than out of a real need to improve the Cavanagh Edge? This would certainly be true if the licensing program steadily increased after 1931. More hats with his edge seemed to have survived from the 1930s onward than the earlier hats, but their scarcity could be due several factors, from exclusivity, or just plain age.
I'm leaning towards Cavanagh being an economic opportunist, but I can only support that hypothesis if I can ever find the appropriate sales records.

Brad

The edge on my hat is really indistinguishable, at least to
me, from Cavanagh edges I have on other hats, both Cavanagh
and other licensees. The only difference I see is that this hat is
softer than any other hat I have with a Cav Edge. The edges of
the edge, if you will, aren't quite as sharp as they would be on
a stiffer hat (or are on a like-new Cavanagh fedora I own).
I suspect just based on the appearance that
the later patents and slight design changes simply allowed further
profit on the idea.

The stretching may have made the brim curl a bit more extreme but that could be fixed. The hat is likely 1920s or before for sure. The liner is not at all like anything I have seen with other Krofut and Knapp hats from the 1930s. Since it mentions the 1913 patent date and not the updated 1931 date then it is certainly before 1931. Going from there, what did it look like when you first got it---block and style wise? To me it looks like something from the teens but then I am not sure without seeing it. Any tags on the felt under the liner or sweatband?

I don't believe the stretching made the brim curl. Rather, I
believe lack of further stretching makes it curl. The edge itself
is clearly designed to curl up a bit at the end. It curled up a bit
more than the edge in the ad you posted when it arrived, which could be
felt shrinkage or it could be design. By not sufficiently stretching
this incredibly soft hat, it drops onto my head, but deforms a bit.
If I were to stretch it more (which I may do if I get a wild hair, or
I may send out), the felt will be relaxed on my head, and it should
look as it does in the pictures on the kitchen counter. BTW, when
off my head it still looks just like when I got it, except that the bow
is stretched a bit.

As for age, I would guess 20s, but who knows. There is a label
under the sweat, with the C&K name (and what I assume is a
founding date, June 15, 1860) on a derby-like silhouette. The
block and reorder numbers are faded, but it is clearly marked
7 3/8 on both the reorder tag and leather sweat (damn eBay sellers).

What makes you think your ad is from the 30s? It could be, but
that J.C. Leyendecker-type art style could be from any time from
WWI-early 30s.

I don't think I mentioned this before, but the sweat band
is some of the softest leather I have ever held in my hand.
A dream of a sweatband.

 

[feltfan]

Which ad are your referring to?:

Your further description of the softness of the hat tends to make me believe you have a WWI era hat or soon after. If you will remember, during WWI there was a shortage of shellac/stiffner from South America. Therefore hat makers had to make do with what they had. Most hats produced during this era had little or no stiffner used. The liner draws me to the end of the era though. Material for the liner would also have been scarce then. You still have a liner though and a decent roan sweatband from what I can tell. Is the hat light weight?

I was refering to the Knapp-Felt ad.

Interesting points. It's comparatively light weight,
though no featherweight Borsalino. Very light compared
to your typical homburg.

The liner, BTW, appears to be silk.

All of this makes me place its age at about 1919. That would give the producers time to get material for the liners but still not enough time to stock up on the stiffner so it was still going light on its application. That is just my opinion from what I can tell through the computer though.

That's okay. I wasn't really looking for an opinion.
Just providing the information for the curious.

I wonder who else has a mystery hat they should be
posting here for our curiosity? I bet a lot of you do.

 

[feltfan]

You asked the questions and now that I answered you don't want an opinion---forget it.

Hey now- no offense intended. I did ask why you thought
the C&K ad was from 1931 and havin' the date printed on
the page is a good reason to believe it. BTW, I just looked-
there are a couple of amusing C&K ads on eBay at the moment.
Well worth a copy and paste of the images since you collect 'em.