Royal Ascot 2007

[Topper]

1st Day Royal Ascot, Morning Dress code for Royal Enclosure, with 7&5/8 Black Silk Top Hat, with Burgundy Silk grosgrain binding.

Back herringbone morning coat, pink winchester shirt, pink "pink" button-hole (similar to carnation) burgundy with blue background tie, plain burgungy pocket square. Ascot Dove grey wasitcoat.

Silver Pocket watch, 22 inch Albert T-bar and fob.

 

[metropd]

My favorite event in the world(even though I've never been), please post pictures of these distiguished gentlemen.:eusa_clap :eusa_clap By the way Topper am I going to get some pictures of that bell crown top hat and its price?

 

[Razzman]

Very impressive Topper. Quite distinguised I might add. You look fantastic.

 

[Topper]

Very impressive Topper. Quite distinguised I might add. You look fantastic.

Thanks you my good man.

I think may curl the brim up slightly more. It looks better in real life , but in photo the look a tad flat.

Pip-pip

Must dash.

 

[metropd]

Wow you know how to curl a pencil curl brim even more on a top hat, now thats impressive.:eusa_clap

PLEASE tell me you have the machine that created bell curves on top hats, if you don't could you please tell me more about them?

 

[cookie]

Ascot

Did you put any money on that Aussie nag that won?

 

[Topper]

Backed all the Aussies! got 1st and 3rd, missed on 4th , oon 3nd race of first day!

 

[Topper]

Day 2, recurled the brim slightly, and wore grey (Ascot is traditional grey) 3 piece, with burgundy and cream spotted accoutrements & burgundy carnation.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Wonderful ensemble, Topper!

Very well done, indeed. :eusa_clap

If I am not mistaken, that is a Brigg? Is it hickory? Quite nice.

 

[DanielJones]

Very sharp Topper!:eusa_clap

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Edward]

Mind if I ask a question? Relating to the hat... I'm trying to phrase this so it doesn't misread as snotty, but please be assured it's a genuine question... I was under the impression that woll top hats belonged with morning wear, while the shinier silk version was white tie evening wear. Clearly I'm mistaken in that cause you obviously know your stuff and yours is nice and shiny, so what's the distinction? Is the wool topper simply a cheaper variant that gets worn nowadays? I'd like to assemble my own morning dress outfit, and was thinking of a nice grey top hat to go with a traditional dove grey jacket and striped court trousers. Would it be more proper to wear the black silk one I have for evening wear with it instead?

I'm a typical lawyer, I'm afraid - I do believe that we shouldn't just be bound by conventional rules simply because they are the rules, but equally I place great value in knowing exactly what and why they are before one thinks about bending them!!

 

[Undertow]

Outstanding, Topper, thanks for the great pics! :eusa_clap

 

[metropd]

I was under the impression that woll top hats belonged with morning wear, while the shinier silk version was white tie evening wear.

Their is no such thing as wool top hat as a top hat made out of wool is rental prop or a costume piece no real top hat is made out of wool.

 

[Orgetorix]

Mind if I ask a question? Relating to the hat... I'm trying to phrase this so it doesn't misread as snotty, but please be assured it's a genuine question... I was under the impression that woll top hats belonged with morning wear, while the shinier silk version was white tie evening wear. Clearly I'm mistaken in that cause you obviously know your stuff and yours is nice and shiny, so what's the distinction? Is the wool topper simply a cheaper variant that gets worn nowadays? I'd like to assemble my own morning dress outfit, and was thinking of a nice grey top hat to go with a traditional dove grey jacket and striped court trousers. Would it be more proper to wear the black silk one I have for evening wear with it instead?

I'm a typical lawyer, I'm afraid - I do believe that we shouldn't just be bound by conventional rules simply because they are the rules, but equally I place great value in knowing exactly what and why they are before one thinks about bending them!!

At one point in the 19th century and before, beaver fur felt was the preferred material for making hats. In the late 19th century, silk plush became fashionable, especially for gentlemen's top hats. That popularity lasted well into the 20th century. Gradually, though, the knowledge and ability to manufacture the silk needed for these hats was lost, and that's why top hats made today are made out of fur felt (better) or wool felt (cheaper).

Silk and felt hats have always been appropriate for both day and night, as far as I know. Many prefer silk for its lush sheen, but vintage silk hats are hard to come by today, and usually very expensive. So many opt for fur felt ones instead. If you have a silk one, though, wear it! As long as it's not the collapsible opera type, though. Those are reserved for evening dress.

One other thing: If worn with striped trousers, a morning coat should be either black or very, very, dark grey. The vest may be dove grey, buff, or other colors. The lighter grey morning coat that Topper is wearing in the second picture traditionally takes a waistcoat and trousers made from the same cloth. We often see lighter grey ones with striped trousers in wedding hire books here in the US, but the combo is really incorrect.

 

[metropd]

What you are thinking of is the satin or silk non shag collabsible top hats that are worn with for white tie as they are meant to fit under the chair at an opera. You of course could wear beaver or a silk shag as well it just might not fit under a chair at an opera. For morning dress you are not alowed to wear a silk or satin top hat that is collapsible, .......as silk shag, moleskin, beaver, mesuline, or any fur with a gloss(the shineness on vintage top hats is from the mercury applied) is proper.

 

[Topper]

Wonderful ensemble, Topper!

Very well done, indeed. :eusa_clap

If I am not mistaken, that is a Brigg? Is it hickory? Quite nice.

Brigg Umbrella. Bought from my locall gentlemans' outfitters. Chestnut I believe. Love the wood can take my full weight as solid walking stick inside so should last me till my 80ies!

DDR 10x50 Carl Zeiss binoculars ( grey gloves hidden in the case)

 

[Harp]

Backed all the Aussies! got 1st and 3rd, missed on 4th , oon 3nd race of first day!

...we'll make some book next year, old boy.

 

[Topper]

Wool felt it the granddaddy of hats , been used for thousands of years.


Tall hats (as they were called before top hats) were probably first made of wool, then fur.

Beaver being most sort after, though rabbit was most common. Most "beaver hat" as the general populus call them are in fact silk plush. Only a few are actual beaver. Moleskin is a tad misleading. Moleskin fur was used as part of the general fur mix at one point in 19C, but was not to my knowledge an actual skin of the annimal animal!

Silk plush hats was a fine silk shag, and came from Florence, around 1760ies. First documented in the UK in 1794 or 1795 ( sorry have to check my records, back it workshop and I'm at home and its past midnight 1am here!) Like all new things they took some time to take on.

The earliest ones were merely a felt had covered with silk plush. Others had "wicker" style wood frames. Though the gossamer shell on the classic topper was prefected by around 1830, and by 1850ies Silk Hats were de rigeur.

As to wearing:

• Classic (Black) Silk plush hard shell topper can be worn to any event with tailcoat.
• Grey silk plush hard shell should only be worn to Royal Ascot ( though to find a grey silk would be very hard!!)
• Black Gibus/Collapsible/ Opera hat only worn with white tie when going to opera/theatre where need to save space. Other white tie occassions e.g. Embassy/State Ball, then a Black rigid Topper should be work.
• Black Melusine ( poilished fur felt) is standard modern alternative, worn as replacement to the Black Silk Plush, though not as resplendent, and heavier.
• Grey Fur Felt, worn as a replacement to the grey silk. Though as of post WWII also became accepted for Garden Parties, and general function. Due to common availability it was used by most people for weddings, by that was a consequence of being a hat the the comman man could afford, not by way of tradition.
• Wool felt, probably the most common and most used by rental firms. Though if your pocket cannot stretch too far then at least you have the good form to show respect to others by having one. - Everyone starts somewhere.

Black hats were a surprise sale this year - As Royal Ascot was Traditionally Grey Hats, but this year it seams that most people wanted a black felt and not a grey felt.

 

[Edward]

Their is no such thing as wool top hat as a top hat made out of wool is rental prop or a costume piece no real top hat is made out of wool.

Ah, ok. I was thinking of the ones they rent out for weddings, which seem to be a much more solid affair than the fancy dress flimsy rubbish, but they've got a matte rather than shiny finish. So what you're saying is they're basically the equivalent of pre-tied cravats? (Euw, they made me weare pre tied at little brother's wedding - vile).

 

[Edward]

Black hats were a surprise sale this year - As Royal Ascot was Traditionally Grey Hats, but this year it seams that most people wanted a black felt and not a grey felt.

Thanks, Topper... a lot to digest there, I feel a lot better informed now. The side of me that loves to colour coordinate wants a grey hat to match the morning tails when I eventually put that outfit together... are those considered a bit naff, then - should I stick to the grey?

With my black hats I pretty much follow the old codes, though the opera hat I find tremendously useful when travelling further afield - saves carrying a very bulky hatbox, which can only be a good thing - I do not travel light!

BTW.... your hat in the photos - is it just a trick of the lighting (or my monitor), or is the binding round the edge of your brim a reddish colour? Goes great with the overall look!