repair sequence question

[warmentrout]

My skills with the search engine on this site are not too high, so if this question has been addressed somewhere else would someone please tell me where ? I bought an ebay hat, I'm pretty sure it's wool, it needs a new liner, sweatband and ribbon. I thought it would be a good hat to practice repairs on. Question 1) What is the sequence of putting those three items on the hat ? If you put the lining on before the ribbon how do you stitch the ribbon and bow on with out stiching through the lining ? If you put the ribbon on before the lining how do you how do you stitch the lining in without stitching through the ribbon ? Question 2) I understand the concept of swirling the ribbon, ( the hat has a tapered crown ), you are supposed to stretch one side of the ribbon so it is longer than the other so you get a cone shape that fits the taper of the crown. I am having difficulty accomplishing that. In my town I can only find polyester ribbon, but I have read on some millinery supply sites that you can do it with polyester. Question 3) When ordering a sweatband how do I know if I am getting one that has the band, the wire, the connecting ferrules, everything I need to put it on the hat ? Any help or directions to help would be appreciated.

 

[tonyb]

Didn't want your questions to go unanswered, warmentrout, but there ain't no good way to do that in fewer than several thousand words. So please settle for a so-so way.

First off ... Are you sure this hat is wool? If it is, I'd suggest you instead find some beater fur-felt hat to practice with. You'll almost certainly get more satisfactory results, and seeing how nothing breeds success like success ...

(Do you actually have the hat in your possession? Or is the speculation that it is wool based on the seller's description? Just so you know, eBay sellers ROUTINELY describe old fur-felt hats as made of wool. I assume that in most cases they just don't know any better, and, in many cases, I suspect they think that saying it's wool makes it more desirable.)

Do you have a block and/or flange? You can replace the sweatband and ribbon and liner without reblocking the crown and flanging the brim, but really, to go to all the trouble of taking the hat apart and replacing those parts without blocking and flanging is doing the hard parts without getting anything approaching the full benefit, unless the felt happens to be clean and smooth and generally in something resembling like-new condition, which is highly doubtful, I would think, if the sweatband and ribbon and liner need replacing.

Taking the hat apart is easy enough. An X-Acto knife should come in handy.

Putting it back together generally goes 1.) assemble and install sweatband (a whole, whole lot easier to say than do), 2.) fashion and install new band and bow from ribbon (ditto), 3.) install new liner.

When installing the ribbon, run the needle from the inside of the crown out (the new sweatband is in at this point, but it is turned out so that you have clear access to the lower portion of the crown). And do your best to conceal those stitches. On the bow, have the needle penetrate only the inside fold of ribbon or, should you find it necessary to penetrate both layers, make the stitches small and as close to the very edge of the ribbon as you can.

Stitching in the new liner involves just barely penetrating the felt on the inside of the crown in, oh, half a dozen places. Take a look at a quality vintage lid (or most new customs) to see how they did it. Me, I find it easy to do this, although I hear that it throws some people for a loop so they secure the liner with a few drops of glue.

For small quantities of materials -- sweatbands (yes, you'll be getting the reeded variety), ferrules, ribbon, etc. -- try hatsupply.com.

As to ribbon ...

I'd steer clear of that polyester stuff you can get at the local fabric store. Some people say it's okay, but seeing how cotton/rayon blend isn't particularly hard to find (provided it's 1 1/2 inches wide or under), it's a compromise I'd rather avoid. If all you need is enough to do a hat or two, well, I happen to know somebody who'd probably have what you're looking for.

It may be that you have a real aptitude for hatting, warmentrout. I hope so. As has been said many, many times before, the basics of hat making are straightforward. Seeing how it's done prompts many to say, Heck, I could do that. And they probably could. But there are innumerable ways to do all those little steps wrong, or at least not particularly well. And a good hat is the result of doing each of those steps well. Getting to that point takes lots of practice and usually involves a fair amount of swearing and ruined materials and even blood.

Welcome to the fold, by the way. I look forward to seeing your handiwork.

 

[jpbales]

Sounds like fun!

I recently changed the ribbon on my panama, and there's an excellent thread on how to do it here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?p=625448&posted=1#post625448

I also recommend finding the cotton/rayon mix ribbon as well, because it's more flexible and it just plain looks nicer.
Scroll down in the thread I linked above and it will show you how to "swirl" the ribbon so it conforms to the crown's shape. When you use a spray bottle on the ribbon, it gets flexible and conforms better. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the ribbon to fit perfect, but in the end it looks great.

I don't know anything about sewing on a sweatband, and most of the liners I've seen were hot glued on (i've never put one in myself).

Good luck!

 

[jpbales]

It may be that you have a real aptitude for hatting, warmentrout. I hope so. As has been said many, many times before, the basics of hat making are straightforward. Seeing how it's done prompts many to say, Heck, I could do that. And they probably could. But there are innumerable ways to do all those little steps wrong, or at least not particularly well. And a good hat is the result of doing each of those steps well. Getting to that point takes lots of practice and usually involves a fair amount of swearing and ruined materials and even blood.

Hopefully not too much blood!! haha lol

 

[warmentrout]

Thanks for the tips / advice tonyb and jpbales. I will put it to use. I'm not sure that the hat is wool. The sweatband says "a product of Hat Corporation of America". The lining says"Saks Fifth Ave." and the hat is a velour finish. It just kinda feels like wool to me so that's what I assumed. I wanted to "make my mistakes" on a hat that didn't cost me much before I try my hand at the ebay hat I recieved today, a Shudde Bros. Beaver Deluxe "open road". I want to convert it to a fedora, add a wider ribbon and possibly cut down the brim. When I figure out how to post pics I will submit my efforts for critique. "Till then thanks for the info guys.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The sweatband says "a product of Hat Corporation of America".

Ah, music to my ears, er eyes...

Anyway, post photos of this one, if you don't mind. It is most assuredly not going to be wool. It should be a pretty high-quality hat, all things considered.

Brad

 

[warmentrout]

Does anyone know where to purchase ribbon ? I would like to find someone who will send samples or let me purchase samples. My monitor does not duplicate color accurately. There are lots of references to " look on the internet, there are lots of places that sell it", but, with few exceptions, they only sell polyester ribbon. I can get polyester ribbon at any fabric store at the mall. I have found Lawrence Schiff, but certainly they are not the only company that sells ribbon, and their choices of colors that to me seem useful for "men's hats" are somewhat limited. I'm not too concerned about finding vintage ribbon just something I can swirl and make fit a tapered crown hat I got for $20.00 on OFAS

Company names, website links, phone numbers, personal stock, anything would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[jpbales]

I bought some cotton/rayon ribbon from farmhouse fabrics: http://webstore.quiltropolis.net/st...8&Page_id=17&categ_id=189&parent_ids=0,12,179
Farmhouse lets you buy it per yard and there's no minimum purchase on it, so you don't have to buy a ton of ribbon you're not going to use, like some other places. However, they don't have the biggest selection.
Hatsupply.com has a good selection, but there's a minimum order:
http://www.hatsupply.com/grosgrain_sweats.htm
That's about all I know about ribbons though! Good luck!

 

[warmentrout]

Thanks jpbales. I will check them out. By the way, I'm still wondering where, as in what store, your girlfriend got you that cool hat rack.

 

[Wil Tam]

Ambitious!

Thanks for the tips / advice tonyb and jpbales. I will put it to use. I'm not sure that the hat is wool. The sweatband says "a product of Hat Corporation of America". The lining says"Saks Fifth Ave." and the hat is a velour finish. It just kinda feels like wool to me so that's what I assumed. I wanted to "make my mistakes" on a hat that didn't cost me much before I try my hand at the ebay hat I recieved today, a Shudde Bros. Beaver Deluxe "open road". I want to convert it to a fedora, add a wider ribbon and possibly cut down the brim. When I figure out how to post pics I will submit my efforts for critique. "Till then thanks for the info guys.

Wow .. You want to try a conversion .. on a second attempt .. be careful with the process of cutting down the brim because there's no coming back from a bad cut... best of luck & I mean that sincerely.

I just did a couple of DIYs, the first was just a ribbon replacement, I posted after & asked for a critique of my work which I learned a lot from.

A great experience, so with my second attempt I did a semi full renovation on a Knox that I got on eBay.

It was in great shape when I got it but it was old so the sweatband crumbled & the style was not to my taste .. it had a ugly thin belt as a ribbon [I bought it for the color of the body] so I just steamed the creases out the crown after I gutted it, the fit was spot on so it didn't require a reblocking.

I ended up reusing the lining since it was in fine shape after I hand washed it & ironed it .. it was originally glued on .. I stitched it back on & used the ribbon to hide my work .. next time I will try the method that tonyb posted up top.

You can use a service like PhotoBucket for your pictures then post them on here .. that's what I use and it's free.

Good luck & I look forward to seeing pics of the process & finished project.

here's a link to my last project if you're interested.




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Now playing: Magnetic Fields, the - Underwear
via FoxyTunes

 

[Wil Tam]

Almost forgot!

Welcome to the Hat Fanatics Club & enjoy your stay!



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Now playing: Magnetic Fields, the - Acoustic Guitar
via FoxyTunes

 

[warmentrout]

Ah, music to my ears, er eyes...

Anyway, post photos of this one, if you don't mind. It is most assuredly not going to be wool. It should be a pretty high-quality hat, all things considered.

Brad

Here is what I have
http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/warmentrout/?action=view&current=0210092219.jpg

http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/warmentrout/?action=view&current=0210092220.jpg

http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/warmentrout/?action=view&current=0210092221.jpg

http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/warmentrout/?action=view&current=0210092220a.jpg

http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/warmentrout/?action=view&current=0210092223a.jpg

 

[carter]

That does not appear to be a wool felt.
It appears to be a fur felt with a velour finish.
It either has an overwelt or a mode edge on the brim (it's hard to see in the pictures).
The bow on the ribbon looks sweet as it is.

It's your hat but I'm not sure that's the one to practice on.

What size hat do you wear?

 

[warmentrout]

That does not appear to be a wool felt.
It appears to be a fur felt with a velour finish.
It either has an overwelt or a mode edge on the brim (it's hard to see in the pictures).
The bow on the ribbon looks sweet as it is.

It's your hat but I'm not sure that's the one to practice on.

What size hat do you wear?

This is the finished practice run. This came to me from OFAS balled up in an 8x8x8 in box. It had pheasant feathers where a ribbon should be and the sweatband crumbled when I tried to turn it inside out. So I replaced all of that and gave it a new bash and this IS the finished product.

Size: between 7 3/8 and 7 1/2. Vintage 7 1/2 is almost too big. I assume they have shrunk some. New 7 1/2 is too big. 7 3/8 always needs a little stretch.