Refund Help... Please.

[trapp]

Here's what I would do: Get your documents and timeline all in order, then call both PayPal and your credit card company's customer service department. Give them the full rundown. Very often they will go outside thier standard policy for time limits on dispute claims....Following that, send both paypal and the credit card company an email with copies of all your files. Then, contact the BBB with the same strategy and information. Then, contact the seller and tell him all the steps you've taken to date and that you expect his full and timely cooperation in complying with his sales terms. And if he doesn't respond, go nuclear on his ass.

Such a an awful feeling. Been there before myself

At four months, I think the 'benefit of the doubt' window has long expired - and Betron's advice seems the soundest course of action at this point.

Personally, I would make one more attempt to reach out to the vendor. I would present them with your timeline, and in a respectful and business-like way, explain what you are planning to do (i.e. start contacting PP, CC, and BBB). This does not need to be worded as a threat - this isn't kindergarten. You are giving them an opportunity to act before you start taking action. Hopefully, this wakes them up - and saves you both the time and hassle of bringing in other parties.

Four months is ridiculous - and this appears to be a classic case where one party has both the money and the jacket and isn't feeling particularly motivated to see to it that the refund goes through. "I thought the refund went through" can only work once, in my mind. After that, any decent business or seller will proactively see to it that you got your money. On your end, you don't need to be wracking your brain to invent all the things that 'might' be holding them up, such as illness. Keep moving forward in a sane way to get your money. If it turns out something legitimate on their end stood for four months between you and your refund, then they owe you an apology, not vice-versa. You can then wish them best health / recovery or whatever (and mean it) but still have what is rightfully yours.

 

[trapp]

For anyone who has used Paypal, and the money has not been received within Paypal's stipulated timeframe for openeing a dispute, I think it is always best to open a dispute on Paypal's website even if the vendor has agreed to return your money. That way you have Paypal's involvement from the beginning of the process to facilitate your reimbursement for the return. Now it appears you have no jacket and are also out the money as well. :rage:

Also, paypal just recently increased to 180 days (6 months) the timeframe when a buyer can open a dispute (I remember reading a policy update about it). He is still well within that window.

 

[scotrace]

We always encourage members with disputes with merchants to address their concerns privately, through all possible channels. Mistakes happen, no one is perfect, and every business will foul up now and then. I would make an attempt to speak via phone, and send a letter with documentation outlining what you know to date. Give a clear date by which you expect to have your refund in hand, after which you will notify the appropriate consumer action groups and take action with Paypal, and that you will take all measures you feel are appropriate to prevent such a series of unfortunate events from unfolding on other customers, including informing other collectors via web forum and or social media.

THEN you can name names here.

 

[bn1966]

If they are a fairly big company, something that's worked for me in the past is to Google the 'Organ Grinder' the 'Big Boss' & if I can procure sufficient information (e-mail address / phone number) I then contact them direct when I've had no joy from their employees.

 

[thor]

I had a very similar issue with a leather jacket manufacturer here in the States and it took 3 months of calling and e-mailing before I finally got my refund. They used the exact same excuses. I'm curious if it's the same outfit...

 

[ProteinNerd]

I had a very similar issue with a leather jacket manufacturer here in the States and it took 3 months of calling and e-mailing before I finally got my refund. They used the exact same excuses. I'm curious if it's the same outfit...

I wonder if a trend is emerging here? Maybe this is their SOP for returns?

I certainly would appreciate knowing who this is/was so I can at least be fully informed if I ever decide to do business with them.

It seems almost hypocritical in a way to me that individual manufacturers wait times are open to discussion but refund times are not..... are they not both just different types of transactions with the manufacturer?

IMO by letting them "hide" behind anonymity we "let" them get away with it. For me the way a company deals with complaints or when they just plain mess up (which everyone does) is the true indicator of its customer service. This isn't about threatening them that you will name and shame, this is about being open and honest about how a company does business...if they aren't proud enough of how they conduct themselves to have it written about in a public forum, maybe they should conduct themselves differently?

 

[handymike]

^^^ PMs are powerful things

 

[Brettafett]

Gents, thank you so much for all the input. I will take all advice to hand and work it.
I have sent this thread's link to the people in question and hope they take the time to read these comments and then make good.
I sincerely hope they and other vendors note how really upsetting and unnecessary this situation can be. It does not reflect well...
All I want now is a resolution and to move on.
Will post updates...

 

[Deleted member 16736]

In a situation like this, I always shoot first and ask question later. Get PayPal or the CC company involved immediately. Open a dispute right away. Then you're in a better negotiating position. The vendor can ignore you, but he can't fight you and PayPal or you and the CC company. He has a strong incentive not to get either of them upset with him. A vendor who gets blackballed by PayPal or a CC company is going to have problems doing business, and they know that. I still believe it's not too late. Talk to PayPal or the CC company and let them do your negotiating for you. You'll get paid back faster and it'll save you the aggravation of having to fight the vendor alone. I definitely think the time for talk has passed. And don't start shaming them. You're right to hold back. Badmouthing him among his customers won't help you, even if it's fully justified, and may only cause him to dig in his heels. Remember what you want: your money back. Good luck.

 

[Fanch]

Joel Shapiro just gave the best response to this thread and couldn't have said it any better. :thumb:

 

[Azog]

I was about to pull the trigger on a jacket from a well established US manufacturer. But now have some reservations in case it is the same company you are having problems with.

 

[thor]

Just for the record, I've done business with many US jacket manufacturers (Lost Worlds, US Authentic, Gibson & Barnes, Schott, Eddie Bauer, LL Bean). These guys were all super-professional with great products as well as good customer service.
Sadly, sometimes all it takes is one bad transaction with a company to sour one's opinion of them. Live and learn.

 

[Brettafett]

I was about to pull the trigger on a jacket from a well established US manufacturer. But now have some reservations in case it is the same company you are having problems with.

Especially annoying as the postage, import duties and other costs never get reimbursed.
On the other hand its no wonder that some of the 'big' names in the undustry have such a large fan base, its not just the jackets, but these guys offer impeccable customer service, less 'promises' and will generally sort out any issues quick quick (In my experience)... Although I guess no ones perfect.

 

[nick123]

You'll get through this. In twenty years it will all be forgotten and you'll be swimming in jackets.

We all will.

 

[Smithy]

Especially annoying as the postage, import duties and other costs never get reimbursed.
On the other hand its no wonder that some of the 'big' names in the undustry have such a large fan base, its not just the jackets, but these guys offer impeccable customer service, less 'promises' and will generally sort out any issues quick quick (In my experience)... Although I guess no ones perfect.

Brettafett, it wouldn't happen to be a certain crowd that you got a seal A-2 from earlier this year and who have supposedly made jackets for a certain WWII film coming out?

They were on my shortlist for a new A-2 before I decided to go with GW. If it's the same crowd, I'm pleased I changed my mind and decided to go with GW.

As you say there's a reason why companies like Aero/ELC/etc have continued business. I'll always support a business which happily sorts out its problems and goes the extra mile to make customers happy. I certainly won't put my hard earned readies anywhere near a company who pursues sales unscrupulously.

I hope that said company ponies up and gives your money back without having to go through all the CC/PP stuff. It's the least they can do.

And do post the company's name if they do decide to muck you around anymore. It's a worthwhile thing for members here to have a heads up about unscrupulous vendors.

 

[Sloan1874]

Yep, if push comes to shove, and they tell you go to shove, make it clear that for the sake of one jacket they'll have lost X hundred/thousand customers from here. Seems only fair.

 

[havocpaul]

Sorry to hear about this (thankfully rare) problem. Personally I think it would be best to now name the company in question as with people trying to guess who they are it might be dragging 'innocent' sellers into the discussion. It might also just give the guilty seller a big dose of guilt and move your justified refund along much faster. Good luck with your claim and hope it gets resolved positively soon.

 

[eggleman]

Sorry to hear about this (thankfully rare) problem. Personally I think it would be best to now name the company in question as with people trying to guess who they are it might be dragging 'innocent' sellers into the discussion. It might also just give the guilty seller a big dose of guilt and move your justified refund along much faster. Good luck with your claim and hope it gets resolved positively soon.

Agreed .. only fair to either name the company , or close this thread , as the suspicion will spread to innocent sellers.
Got to honest , I wouldn't have let this go past a month before taking extra measures .

 

[Brettafett]

Guys, thanks again for all the input. Really appreciate it.
Well, I have lodged a complaint with Paypal and the Better Business Bureau. I have also sent a few emails to the crew in question... again.
I have sent Paypal statements and all sorts of correspondence and transaction details. An expensive oversees phone call will follow next week.
Man, I wasted hours on this yesterday and today!
I would still prefer not to name names, I would like this 'vendor' a chance to come clean and would prefer getting my $ back.
I do understand the quandary of warning other potential buyers of this issue, hey, perhaps this was an exception.... Let s see it play out from here. But I won't pander for much longer, this is bad bad business.

 

[Edward]

Did you pay by credit card or PayPal? Your credit company can maybe still put it into dispute and pp offer a satisfaction guaranteed deal that you could try.

Indeed. Paypal seem to have improved their act on this front, but in any case, if you have a credit card and use it via Paypal, the cc company would still be worth speaking to. They might at least put some pressure on paypal to sort it out. I've always found both good at getting a refund, though Paypal can be spectacularly unhelpful once their limits are up. Good thing they've extended.

For anyone who has used Paypal, and the money has not been received within Paypal's stipulated timeframe for openeing a dispute, I think it is always best to open a dispute on Paypal's website even if the vendor has agreed to return your money. That way you have Paypal's involvement from the beginning of the process to facilitate your reimbursement for the return. Now it appears you have no jacket and are also out the money as well. :rage:

Absolutely. I got stung once that way by a seller who strung me along with various excuses right up unitl time had run out, then cut off all contact. Fortunatley for a relatively small amountg of money, but now when I have a legitimate conv ern I always open in Paypal. I explain to the seller that I'm sure we can sort it out, I just have to cover all bases after past bad experience; anyone legit doesn't have a problem with that.

We always encourage members with disputes with merchants to address their concerns privately, through all possible channels. Mistakes happen, no one is perfect, and every business will foul up now and then. I would make an attempt to speak via phone, and send a letter with documentation outlining what you know to date. Give a clear date by which you expect to have your refund in hand, after which you will notify the appropriate consumer action groups and take action with Paypal, and that you will take all measures you feel are appropriate to prevent such a series of unfortunate events from unfolding on other customers, including informing other collectors via web forum and or social media.

THEN you can name names here.

My professional opinion as a lawyer is that this is exactly the best pratice legal approach, as well as being House Rules.

Especially annoying as the postage, import duties and other costs never get reimbursed.

Agreed - and, unfortunately, when these tings happen it also makes one more wary of buying from outside the EU / relevant tax-free area.