Real USN Pre-WW-II Flight Jacket?

[TPD166]

Watched the movie “Flight Command” (1940) over the weekend and expected to see lots of 37J1/A-1 jackets, but saw none. But the jacket the flyers wore was one I’d never seen before and wondered if it was an actual USN flight jacket or one created by costumers – it has a very wide knit waistband, ¾ zip front (inside wind flap) and two-button top closure, leather cuffs, inset flap pockets, and G-1 styled back construction. The acknowledgement at the start of the film suggests the Navy was involved in making the movie and rest of the uniforms seemed accurate. Here are some poor screen captures and one I found online.

 

[aswatland]

It is not an issued naval jacket. Probably a costume department creation.

 

[Doctor Damage]

I'm sure the smart money will say it's just a movie jacket whipped up by the costume department, and they'd probably be right. But on the other hand it does have some details which predict the G1 jackets: bi-swing back, sewn-down waistbelt at back, scalloped and buttoned pocket flaps, the extension of the leather front down to support the waistband and zipper, and the short windflap under the zipper.

 

[BlueTrain]

I have no idea how authentic, meaning regulation, the jacket is but it's surprising to see a name tape on the jacket in the first photo, if that's what it is. That's especially true when typically military gear and uniforms as seen in the movies can sometimes be a little out of date because of the difficulty of getting current issue items. That's not always true, of course, but uniforms and equipment tends to change more often than we realize.

 

[TPD166]

Some other details from the movie (which is worth watching - if nothing else, to see Red Skelton in a somewhat dramatic role as a Navy pilot - shown at left in the first pic above):

The jacket (with sewn on nametag) in the first photo is the one Robert Taylor's character wears when flying to his new unit at North Island following flight training in Pensacola (note it has no squadron insignia) and is forced out bail out of his plane. As he is "bailing out" he climbs on the wing and the high "winds" make the leather coat wrinkle and flap like a cloth shirt.

The jacket worn after joining his new unit may be different jacket (or the same one with the logo painted on?), but of the same style. All of the pilots in his unit wear the same style jacket with painted insignia and sewn-on nametags.

I've seen other USN aviation films from the same pre-war period (i.e. "Wings of the Navy" (1939)) and the jackets were 37J1s. I thought maybe his squadron had all bought their own unique jackets, but they are the same style Taylor wore flying to CA after graduating flight school.

 

[thor]

The nametag in the first photo is more of a USAAF style. Navy aviators generally wear a larger style (2" by 4" I believe) with embossed gold wings plus their name, rank and USN or USNR.

 

[thor]

 

[Seb Lucas]

Looks like a 1930's civil flight jacket style. The back is interesting. Civil patterns influenced military ones and visa versa.

 

[wondergirl]

would have been issued more than one flight coat, yet the B-15 was the standard flight coat for crew member beginning in April 1944 and it supplanted the A-2 which had been being used since the mid 1930's. Since generally U.S. aircrews did not see battle until 1944 or 1945, odds are high that he wore a B-15. On the off chance that he was appointed to a battle squadron before 1944 he would more than likely have worn a downy lined A-2 unless he was flying in the tropics, in which case he would have been issued a tropical flight suit. As stated, he presumably had more than one arrangement of flight garments. Assignment writing service

 

[HPA Rep]

would have been issued more than one flight coat, yet the B-15 was the standard flight coat for crew member beginning in April 1944 and it supplanted the A-2 which had been being used since the mid 1930's. Since generally U.S. aircrews did not see battle until 1944 or 1945, odds are high that he wore a B-15. On the off chance that he was appointed to a battle squadron before 1944 he would more than likely have worn a downy lined A-2 unless he was flying in the tropics, in which case he would have been issued a tropical flight suit. As stated, he presumably had more than one arrangement of flight garments. Assignment writing service

Welcome, wonder girl!

I'm quite sorry to say that your post contains a good deal of erroneous information for which I hope you do not mind that I rectify and challenge in only friendly terms for the sake of objective, historical accuracy.

The B-15 was, firstly, an AAF jacket and this thread is about a USN style. Secondly, the B-15 was in no way standard issue in April 1944; the B-10 Flying Jacket was just becoming available in recognizable numbers in April 1944, with most going to the 8th and 9th Air Forces in the UK, and the B-15 would not become available in meaningful numbers until late 1944, but the A-2 and B-3 Flying Jackets would remain the most available styles of flying jackets throughout WWII for the AAF. April '44 was indeed the date of standardization of the B-15, but standardization is not synonymous with production and wide availability.

You also say U. S. aircrews did not "generally" see combat until 1944. Please explain how you reached that conclusion. What about combat at Midway, Guadalcanal, the Aleutians, N. Atlantic and Caribbean submarine patrols, Rabaul, New Georgia, the Gilberts, N. Africa, Sicily, Italy, Rouen, Lille, Wilhelmshaven, Naples, Rome, Ploesti, Schweinfurt, Regensburg, Munster??? It's true that American air power was larger in '44 than '43, and it was larger again in '45, but to say American aircrews did not generally see action until '44 just is not supported by facts. And German armaments minister, Albert Speer, acknowledged after WWII (and possibly beforehand) that combined AAF & RAF raids into the Reich created a "so-called second front" in 1943. That is a significant impact.

You also refer to the A-2 as being "downy lined," which is also incorrect. The A-2 was lined only in what was called "airplane cloth," which was a flat-weave cotton broadcloth. The A-2 was designated a "summer flying jacket," and along with the A-4 one-piece flying suit, formed the basis of summer flying clothing if we observe such in the formal terms of the AAF in 1941-43. Some of the winter B-9 Flying Jackets were produced with true, down-filled linings, but that's another conversation.

I think you are definitely grasping some of the information you've read, but it's your application and overall understanding and coalescing of this that needs refinement, which you can do by carefully reviewing the details and not applying some of the verbiage too literally, such as "standardization." Forums such as this can be an excellent aid in getting a better understanding of facts, but nothing beats original research and rock-solid primary sources. Good luck in your studies!

 

[Doctor Strange]

I think you're responding to some kind of spambot post, Charles. I feel like I've seen "her" erroneous text somewhere on the Internet before, and it's just been copied and shoved into this first/only post by "machine intelligence". I mean, it's an incomplete extract that has nothing to do with Navy jackets.

Thanks for all your great detail, though!

And wondergirl, if you're actually a real person, I apologize for assuming otherwise.

 

[BlueTrain]

I'm not wonderful, much less a girl but my late father-in-law was in the AAF and stationed (somewhere) in England in 1944 and 1945. My wife has a few photos taken then, including some from over the target. Unfortunately, I am unable to scan any of them (and I don't have them in front of me, either).

One photo shows the crew on the ground, presumably getting ready for a mission. They are dressed in a variety of outfits, mostly in what I take to have been one-piece flying suits. All the photos with people in them are only about 2 1/2 by4, so details are not easy to pick out. Only one person is wearing a fleece lined jacket. I don't recall that any were wearing the regular flying jacket. It was a B-24 crew, by the way. One person is wearing a shoulder holster around his waist.

My father-in-law said his own issue leather jacket was stolen and I gather it was popular enough so that if someone wanted one badly enough, that was one way they got one. It was probably much easier to get one that way than to be issued one if you weren't authorized one or to obtain a civilian leather flying jacket, especially overseas. Chances are, he wouldn't have remembered all the details of the jacket fifty years later.

Among the photos and newspaper clippings (including death notices in hometown newspapers), was a short news article that said his squadron had failed to achieve one of its missions because of fog or weather or something. It turned out that the mission was to bomb the bridge at Remagen.