Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

I just checked several of my peacoats, including the one that was issued in 1965 to my buddy, that is now in my collection. All of the original buttons have the flukes pointing toward the bottom of the jacket with the top of the anchor pointing up. I can't appreciate a diagonal of 30 degrees on any of the coats, but I certainly don't dispute Spoon's findings, even though his collection is just beginning. He does know a lot about peacoats.

It is relatively easy to determine when a button has been resewn: The thread will be sewn through the lining, whereas in the original button placement, they are sewn before the lining is attached.

 

[dleak77]

Interesting...so if I am understanding you correctly Mr. Peacoat, you are saying the anchor on the original buttons is pretty much straight up & down. Looks like all of my buttons have been resewn at some point or another because I dont have any sewn on that don't go all the way through the lining...and they are turned all different directions. Thanks for the info. Looks like all my buttons are about to be resewn again.

 

[Peacoat]

Interesting...so if I am understanding you correctly Mr. Peacoat, you are saying the anchor on the original buttons is pretty much straight up & down. Looks like all of my buttons have been resewn at some point or another because I dont have any sewn on that don't go all the way through the lining...and they are turned all different directions. Thanks for the info. Looks like all my buttons are about to be resewn again.

Yes, on most of my originally sewn buttons, they are pretty much straight up and down, although I did find a few original buttons that are canted at about 15 to 20 degrees, similar to what Spoon said. Please note that Spoon is in Duchess County, NY, and the standard magnetic deviation would be a bit more that far north, compared to where I am in Middle Tennessee. That would account for his seeing a 30 degree cant on the anchor buttons.

 

[Spoonbelly]

Interesting...so if I am understanding you correctly Mr. Peacoat, you are saying the anchor on the original buttons is pretty much straight up & down. Looks like all of my buttons have been resewn at some point or another because I dont have any sewn on that don't go all the way through the lining...and they are turned all different directions. Thanks for the info. Looks like all my buttons are about to be resewn again.

t seem to be a definite button position from coat to coat. The buttons are pointed in different angles from coat to coat

Yes, on most of my originally sewn buttons, they are pretty much straight up and down, although I did find a few original buttons that are canted at about 15 to 20 degrees, similar to what Spoon said. Please note that Spoon is in Duchess County, NY, and the standard magnetic deviation would be a bit more that far north, compared to where I am in Middle Tennessee. That would account for his seeing a 30 degree cant on the anchor buttons.

Some of the angles vary even more the 30 degrees. Some less then 30 degrees. I'm surprised at this. You would think that there would be an exact spec for these button angles. It's something I never thought about before. Whenever I resew a button I always sew it straight and vertical. That magnetic field certainly doesn't do anything for the temperatures up here. I've been wearing my coats for a couple of weeks now. Although not everyday. Winter has arrived in NY alright.

 

[Spoonbelly]

t seem to be a definite button position from coat to coat. The buttons are pointed in different angles from coat to coat


Some of the angles vary even more the 30 degrees. Some less then 30 degrees. I'm surprised at this. You would think that there would be an exact spec for these button angles. It's something I never thought about before. Whenever I resew a button I always sew it straight and vertical. That magnetic field certainly doesn't do anything for the temperatures up here. I've been wearing my coats for a couple of weeks now. Although not everyday. Winter has arrived in NY alright.

The weather here in NY is now springtime. Won't need the pea coats for a week or so. I reckon it must be the El Nino. Supposed to be record breaking highs.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Once you guys sort out the button angle issue, then we can figure out how many angels can dance on a button. I know that sounds dismissive, but until we find a USN or US government document or something which sets out the button angle I'd be willing to bet that differences are due to bored seamstresses back in 1943 or some sort of silly 'branding' preference by a particular manufacturer.

 

[Peacoat]

Once you guys sort out the button angle issue, then we can figure out how many angels can dance on a button. I know that sounds dismissive, but until we find a USN or US government document or something which sets out the button angle I'd be willing to bet that differences are due to bored seamstresses back in 1943 or some sort of silly 'branding' preference by a particular manufacturer.

And I wouldn't want to bet against you on that one.

 

[dleak77]

Once you guys sort out the button angle issue, then we can figure out how many angels can dance on a button. I know that sounds dismissive, but until we find a USN or US government document or something which sets out the button angle I'd be willing to bet that differences are due to bored seamstresses back in 1943 or some sort of silly 'branding' preference by a particular manufacturer.

Fair enough...but this discussion didn't start out as an academic exercise in comparative button angles...or angels. It started because I needed to have some of my buttons resewn & since keeping this coat as authentic as possible is important to me, I wanted it done the "right way". I assumed as anal and detailed as the Navy/military is known to be that there would be a definite "right way"...but that seems to not necessarily be the case. Still I don't think the question or discussion was futile...even if the answer is that they point in whatever direction happened to strike a bored seamstress' fancy.

 

[Peacoat]

Fair enough...but this discussion didn't start out as an academic exercise in comparative button angles...or angels. It started because I needed to have some of my buttons resewn & since keeping this coat as authentic as possible is important to me, I wanted it done the "right way". I assumed as anal and detailed as the Navy/military is known to be that there would be a definite "right way"...but that seems to not necessarily be the case. Still I don't think the question or discussion was futile...even if the answer is that they point in whatever direction happened to strike a bored seamstress' fancy.

I think your best bet is to have the buttons re-sewn with the anchors straight up, flukes to the bottom and the top of the anchor pointing up. That is the way I sewn mine on when one comes loose. You can't go wrong with that configuration. It will pass muster on any ship or boat in the fleet. PC.

 

[dleak77]

Thanks Mr. Peacoat. That was the conclusion I drew as well. I'm not terribly OCD but having the buttons pointing all different directions was bothering me & since I had two missing ones to replace anyway, my wife (bless her heart) took all the buttons off then sewed them back on straight up & down. She just finished last night. So, my peacoat is now ready for inspection (& cold weather). Me...not so much. Thanks for all your help everyone!

 

[Peacoat]

I agree with you, it is important to have the buttons properly positioned. Glad to be of help.

Don't know what part of Illinois you are in, but it can get bitterly cold with lots of snow in the northern part, and not so much in the southern part, but still cold enough. When I was spending time in NYC with the peacoat as my only heavy coat, I found that a sweater layered under the coat improved the warmth factor by .5. Had there been polypropylene undershirts back then, that would have added another .25 to the equation. I don't have enough insulation on my body to comfortably wear a peacoat without layering when the temperature is at or below freezing. Just a tip you may already be aware of.

 

[dleak77]

I'm in the southern part of Illinois. Here it isn't as bitterly cold as often as up North, but it is pretty variable. We've had winters with feet of snow & times when the temperature didn't get above the teens for weeks at a time. On the other hand we've had some winters where it was incredibility mild. You just never know. Last weekend the high was in the 40s & over night it was down in the 20s...today its 70 degrees.

I appreciate the sweater tip, unfortunately my peacoat is just a little too snug for much bulk underneath. A long sleeve shirt or lighter weight sweater is fine, but a heavy sweater makes it just tight enough to feel uncomfortable...I already tried it out. I'm thinking about buying another peacoat a size bigger to wear with the bulkier layers underneath. That way I can alternate back & forth depending on what i am wearing that particular day. I also just bought a circa '52 peacoat for my wife for Xmas. I suspect this is how "collections" get started lol.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Flannel-shirt under your wintercoat? Combined with a nice scarf for neck-protection? Or an (cheaper massmarket) Merino-, lambswool- or Cashmere-turtleneck-pullover or knitwear-turtleneck-pullover?

 

[Peacoat]

I'm in the southern part of Illinois. Here it isn't as bitterly cold as often as up North, but it is pretty variable. We've had winters with feet of snow & times when the temperature didn't get above the teens for weeks at a time. On the other hand we've had some winters where it was incredibility mild. You just never know. Last weekend the high was in the 40s & over night it was down in the 20s...today its 70 degrees.

I appreciate the sweater tip, unfortunately my peacoat is just a little too snug for much bulk underneath. A long sleeve shirt or lighter weight sweater is fine, but a heavy sweater makes it just tight enough to feel uncomfortable...I already tried it out. I'm thinking about buying another peacoat a size bigger to wear with the bulkier layers underneath. That way I can alternate back & forth depending on what i am wearing that particular day. I also just bought a circa '52 peacoat for my wife for Xmas. I suspect this is how "collections" get started lol.

+1 Yes, once the buyer gets the sizing sorted out, i recommend one peacoat for a trim look and one a size larger for layering when the temps become too low for just the peacoat. Trenchfriend's recommendation is also one I use, depending on my destination.

And you are correct about how the collections get started. I think it was Spoonbelly who echoed my feelings when he said to get several different sized peacoats for different temperatures, and then get a spare for each of the sizes. That is very good advice. Unfortunately, as my wife has consistently noted, we have no more closet space for peacoats, leather jackets, flight jackets, Navy deck jackets, or work jackets. In fact, I have had to reduce my collection to somewhere between 15 and 20 peacoats. I feel almost naked at that level.

 

[LaymanX]

Hullo folks! What's a good resource to pick up a kersey wool peacoat? I lucked out and bought an un-issued Vietnam war era peacoat last time from Etsy and want to buy a bigger one for layering purposes.

VintageTrends.com has a good selection, but their measurements are kind of hard to use. Advice?

 

[Peacoat]

The people at Vintage Trends don't have any idea about peacoat measurements. If asked for the p2p, they merely look at the stated tag size and divide by two. Not helpful. What i do when I want an accurate p2p measurement is to tell the seller exactly how to measure the coat. VT may or may not follow the directions. As expensive as their peacoats are, they ought to do everything they can do to ensure the buyer gets the proper size.

Follow the link below. There is a section on sizing of peacoats toward the end. There I have given step by step instructions on how to properly measure the p2p of a peacoat. Copy and paste the instructions and send to VT, or other seller. Hopefully they will get it right.

If your current peacoat is a trim fit without layering, probably a size larger will be what you want. Of course use the p2p of the prospective peacoat to see if it is consistent with the stated tag size. Sometimes, but not often, there is a major discrepancy, as our member Cooperson can attest.

Good luck in the hunt. PC.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/thre...-dating-the-united-states-navy-peacoat.72058/

 

[dleak77]

Hullo folks! What's a good resource to pick up a kersey wool peacoat? I lucked out and bought an un-issued Vietnam war era peacoat last time from Etsy and want to buy a bigger one for layering purposes.

VintageTrends.com has a good selection, but their measurements are kind of hard to use. Advice?

LaymanX,

I've actually had good luck finding vintage Navy issued peacoats on eBay. Most of the sellers aren't very educated about what era the coats they are selling are from (for example there are a large number of coats listed as "WW2" that obviously aren't if you do a little research...some if this is probably outright deceit, but some is just a case of the seller not knowing any better). So, I always refer back to Mr. Peacoats awesome thread for dating peacoats...often. Most of the sellers on eBay are happy to answer questions, send you extra photos, take measurements, etc. Again, since most don't research the coat themselves, you may have to walk them through how to measure, what to look for, etc.

About 9 months ago I purchased a size 42 circa 1949 peacoat off eBay for myself. I think i originally paid around $80. The only problem I had with it was there was a little minor moth damage & the lining of one sleeve was loose...all of which I asked about ahead of time but the seller failed to disclose. I got him to give me a partial refund so I think I actually ended up paying around $50. Overall it is still a great coat & the lining was pretty inexpensive to have fixed.

A few weeks ago, I bought my wife a size 36 circa 1951 peacoat for Christmas, also off ebay. This one I paid around $40 for, and other than a missing button & needing a good dry cleaning it seems to be in excellent shape.

From what I have seen on VintageThreads, there is no way I could have got either of these for that price there.

Of course it depends on what size you need. There were plenty of coats in my wife's 36 size & far fewer in mine, at least in the ones coming from that era of coat. Which means you will likely have to pay more for the larger, rarer sizes. Still I have found much better deals on eBay than anywhere else. Like I said, just do your homework & be patient.

 

[ionauan]

greetings from Greece and I wish a happy new year for all Fedora members.
Dear Peacoat , I have finally found a size 46 Kersey peacoat , but I need your help regarding its date.
You can find attached the tag.
According to your thorough research this must be a late 40s, early 50s peacoat.
Am I correct

?

 

[dleak77]

greetings from Greece and I wish a happy new year for all Fedora members.
Dear Peacoat , I have finally found a size 46 Kersey peacoat , but I need your help regarding its date.
You can find attached the tag.
According to your thorough research this must be a late 40s, early 50s peacoat.
Am I correct View attachment 42194 ?

You should definitely wait for the expert, Mr. Peacoat, to give you a definite answer, but I'll hazard a guess until he tells us for sure...looks like the coveted 1949 (or thereabouts) tag to me. It is the "Naval Clothing Depot" version with "Service Number", " Contract Number", & Size listed on the tag. However it doesn't appear to have (or ever had) the additional "Cleaning Instructions" tag that came along around 1950 according to Mr. Peacoat's guide. Also it has an N prefix for service number which would be prior to around 1953...again if I am following Mr. Peacoat's guide correctly. If I am correct, I am guessing a size 46 from that particular vintage would be a bit rare...I am looking for a 44 from around that time and they seem to be few & far between (at least unless you want to pay an arm & leg for them). Should be a good find. Congratulations!

 

[Peacoat]

ionauan: You are right about the date, as is dlkeak77. Congratulations on a hard to find date and an even harder to find size. You did well. PC