Question: Tipping in Restaurants, for Services, ??

[Tomasso]

I think you should have walked out, Doran.

Yep, that'll get managements (especially the owner's) attention, seeing 8 people walk out; not stiffing the wait staff.

 

[Feraud]

I am a generous tipper and err on the side of rounding up.
Waiters and bartenders work hard so I try not to bust chops or get upset if they forget something. My wife and I have had only one or two incidents where we either left no tip or left before our meal was served. This was due to extremely bad service.

 

[Viola]

Yep, that'll get managements (especially the owner's) attention, seeing 8 people walk out; not stiffing the wait staff.

Yeah, I'm not saying being peeved is wrong. I would take my table of eight and leave. If I was feeling real aggrieved I would loudly warn people away as they walk up.

But I wouldn't sit down and eat the food and pay the check - how does management learn any lesson - and then whip around and stiff the waiter. What, he's going to keep someone from waiting an hour next time? It's a service to the community?

Why get a meal an hour later? "I am terribly sorry, but I have seen higher professional standards from hotdog cart vendors. Here I go to find one!"

 

[Dr Doran]

Yep, that'll get managements (especially the owner's) attention, seeing 8 people walk out; not stiffing the wait staff.

We were hungry and there was no comparable restaurant. Berkeley is not that great for restaurants.

Furthermore, we had no idea how long the wait would be. We sat at the bar, expecting we would receive a table soon. We were, in fact, assured that soon we would get our table. Several times.

I doubt very much that the waiter would have refrained from alerting the owner. If the owner had any class he would give the waiter 15% of the bill out of his own money because he realized that he had screwed up. If he couldn't even do that, the waiter should find another job.

This occurred several years ago before the economy got too tight.

Finally, I question the "the wait staff are entirely innocent victims" equation. An intelligent waiter would have said "uh, boss, let's just move two tables together." These were not children.

Sorry, but I stand by my decision.

Other people can make other decisions.

 

[Puzzicato]

In most restaurants I go, service is included in the bill at 12.5%. If this service is what I'd expect, I pay the included service, if it is appalling I don't pay the whole bill (just the food, drinks). If it exceeds my expectations I pay more than 12.5%.

With regards to other areas of services I tip only for exceptionality, but have often found that their employer will not allow them to take tips. I think it must be very different from America.

I've just had a, Australian friend staying with me, who came to us after a month in the US and he kept saying how nice it was not to have to figure out tax and tips!

Like you, I pay the service charge but no more for regular service, and will not pay the service charge if it is bad. On one occasion I was booked for a pre-theatre meal, and the service was slow and slovenly and we ended up having to leave without finishing our main courses because it had taken more than 2 hours to that point. They had the nerve to present a bill with a 15% service charge and then kicked off when I declined to pay it.

 

[Bustercat]

It's got to be really bad and the waiters fault for me to stiff.

One time we waited an hour to order in a pretty empty restaraunt on a sunday morning. We had a glib waitress who was more interested in flirting with the bartender inside and watching something on TV than serving her section.
We took gave our order and waited. And waited. It got so bad other customers were looking at each other. One couple left.
Half the waiting wound up being done by the bus boy (who'd bring dishes to the patio and go from table to table, asking in broken english "this you?"
To top it off we had to wait even longer to pay, even after I had to get up to go in and tell her we were ready to settle up.
20 minutes later, the waitress strolls out and starts cracking jokes. No hint of explanation or apology.

So she she pocketed a shiny new nickel as a tip. That's more of a message than leaving none at all.

 

[noonblueapples]

My point's simply that when you stiff a waitress, it's no skin off the management's nose. It's not going to make a whit of difference to the owner of the place, or the person who makes policy -- all it's going to do is make someone with long hours and sore feet go home in a worse of a mood than usual.

If you want to make a statement, make it to the management -- ask to speak to whoever's in charge and give them a piece of your mind. Write a letter. Post a hostile review on a website. Picket the place. But don't take out your frustration on a waitress unless it's over something that's obviously her fault.

Good advice for dealing with any service sector/retail employee. So many of them hear no end of attitude from customers over things they have no controll over; special orders that don't arrive, or checks that can't be approved.

 

[Paisley]

If an order is wrong or slow getting to your table, it might be the cook's fault. Of course, good service would include the waitress telling patrons why their order is taking so long.

 

[Diamondback]

Hence, my point about doing a little investigating first. There's no sense in trying to assign responsibility before you've identified the critical link in the "Failure Chain"--indiscriminate justice, where one person gets blamed for someone nearby's mistake or malefaction, is no justice at all.

 

[1961MJS]

The federal minimum wage for "tipped employees" such as waitresses is $2.13 an hour. Think about that the next time you stiff someone for something they had no control over.

Hi, I understand that a "tip" is a gratuity not just part of the bill. I understand that wait staff get paid little or nothing because they're expected to receive a gratuity. I also understand that the IRS charges wait staff for 15% of their bills (or something to that effect) based on the assumption that they were tipped, and the IRS wants their fair share.

I think it's unfair / silly to "assume" that I will tip, and even sillier to charge a worker based on that assumption. Since the feds are collecting income tax on %15 of the bill, the owners may as well just charge 15% for service and tell us not to tip anymore. GROAN.

I usually tip waiters 15% and the pizza delivery guy the same since he's basically a waiter. I tip my barber even though she pays stall rent and gets to keep the whole $22.50. I don't tip hotel maids for two reasons: 1. It never occurred to me; 2. I thought that they were paid more than that. I also don't tip the Fedex guy, UPS guy, or the mailman.

Later

 

[Chas]

My tipping rates vary.

Base rate: 15%
service/food:

• Excellent/Excellent 20%
• Excellent/Good 15%
• Excellent/Mediocre 15%
• Good/Excellent 15%
• Good/Good 15%
• Good/Bad 15%
• Bad/Bad 10%
• Abysmal Food: 10%
• Abysmal both: Stiff 'em.

But I always tell them how the food is. How can they improve if they don't know?

 

[Slim Portly]

I doubt very much that the waiter would have refrained from alerting the owner. If the owner had any class he would give the waiter 15% of the bill out of his own money because he realized that he had screwed up. If he couldn't even do that, the waiter should find another job.

This occurred several years ago before the economy got too tight.

Finally, I question the "the wait staff are entirely innocent victims" equation. An intelligent waiter would have said "uh, boss, let's just move two tables together." These were not children.

Sorry, but I stand by my decision.

Other people can make other decisions.

Your decision rewarded the owner/maitre d' and punished the wait staff. You say that the owner should have tipped the wait staff out of his own pocket "because he realized that he had screwed up," but if he treats customers with such disregard then what makes you think that he would treat the "help" any better? And I'm confused by your logic that he should have tipped his staff for service that you received (I'm assuming here that the wait staff took your order, delivered the food, etc., exactly as one expects wait staff to do, since you did not level any complaints against them).

Also, you have no idea that an intelligent member of the wait staff didn't do exactly as you suggested and told the owner to move two tables together. You don't know because you didn't talk to the owner about it afterwards. He was there, he saw what was happening, he did nothing about it, and he still got paid. The wait staff did their jobs and got stiffed.

Sure, if working conditions are so bad they should just look for work elsewhere. But why punish them in the meantime?

In the end you were treated poorly by a rude and inattentive owner, ate there anyway, stiffed the wait staff, and hoped that the obviously clueless owner would pay part of your "bill."

Ok, I'm done beating this dead horse, but I am surprised that you stand by your actions.

 

[Slim Portly]

Diamondback, "Failure Chain" would be a good name for a band.

 

[Diamondback]

It's actually an aviation term--an accident usually doesn't have just one cause, but a series of links in a chain that ultimately lead to the failure--change one thing, you break the chain and the accident wouldn't have happened.

It's also described by the "Swiss Cheese Model".
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=4401

For the record, I usually tip around 17-20%, but if you prove yourself to be a screwup, and it's clearly on you and not due to things beyond your control, then I'll start knocking down the percentage.

Bustercat, when I was educated the "Your Service Sucked" tip was not a nickel but two pennies.

 

[swinggal]

We don't tip in Australia. We don't have to because people who work in the service industries get a decent hourly rate. No different for someone working in a supermarket, or department store ($15 to 20 an hour an up - more if you are a casual) etc. In fact, people can earn double time etc on Sundays etc.

The thing that gets me is why don't they just pay people a decent wage in the US? $2 an hour is criminal!! No one here would be allowed to do that as we have minimum wage standards. Hell, some people in Uni etc make a good money working bars because the rates are higher for the weekend.

You can tip here if you really liked the service - but tipping is not expected nor is it customary regardless of what service you get here. But it is because wages are decent. I can understand the necessity of tipping in the US and never mind doing it when I am there - because I know the wages are shite. But I do resent tipping when the service is bad.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi, actually there was an old story going around that several of the downtown NYC restaurants charged their wait staff $125 a night to work there. When you have 3 tables an hour for 6-8 hours, at $500-$1,000 a table the 15% gets up there.

Later

 

[Dr Doran]

Ok, I'm done beating this dead horse, but I am surprised that you stand by your actions.

And I am surprised by your aggressive, highly judgmental tone. It is not your place to judge me, my good fellow.

Nothing is guaranteed in this life. Not a tax return, not reaching 88 before you die, not a tip.

I am the customer. I normally (as I clearly stated) tip 15%. I do not spend 45 minutes calculating exactly whom is to blame when I get crap service.

It is up to my discretion on how much I wish to tip -- and even whether I wish to tip. I would invite you to dine in foreign countries. It sounds as though you have not done this much. Please observe the tipping standards there. The input from non-American Loungers may help you in understanding the situation abroad.

You may be technically correct that the maitre d' is to blame. It is still not my obligation to leave any tip at all. I am tipping for the total experience. I had a large party with me. We needed to be somewhere.

It would not have been terribly difficult for a waiter to whisper "I am not sure if this is going to happen."

Your reaction would be appropriate if I had slain a monkey for kicks. All I did was not leave a tip. Twice. In my life. If I were broke, I would also not have left a tip. And you know what? I suspect a waiter who had been around the block would understand.

Tipping is not sacred.

 

[Viola]

And I am surprised by your aggressive, highly judgmental tone. It is not your place to judge me, my good fellow.

Nothing is guaranteed in this life. Not a tax return, not reaching 88 before you die, not a tip.

I am the customer. I normally (as I clearly stated) tip 15%. I do not spend 45 minutes calculating exactly whom is to blame when I get crap service.

It is up to my discretion on how much I wish to tip -- and even whether I wish to tip. I would invite you to dine in foreign countries. It sounds as though you have not done this much. Please observe the tipping standards there. The input from non-American Loungers may help you in understanding the situation abroad.

You may be technically correct that the maitre d' is to blame. It is still not my obligation to leave any tip at all. I am tipping for the total experience. I had a large party with me. We needed to be somewhere.

It would not have been terribly difficult for a waiter to whisper "I am not sure if this is going to happen."

Your reaction would be appropriate if I had slain a monkey for kicks. All I did was not leave a tip. Twice. In my life. If I were broke, I would also not have left a tip. And you know what? I suspect a waiter who had been around the block would understand.

Tipping is not sacred.

Excuse me, you're saying it would be okay to go in knowing you're "too broke to tip"? Or did I misunderstand you?

 

[Bustercat]

Yeah, that's not cool.

 

[Viola]

And I am surprised by your aggressive, highly judgmental tone. It is not your place to judge me, my good fellow.

Ah, but Doran, nothing in this life is guaranteed. Life is indeed an uncertain proposition.