Pre-WWI Hat Cords

[ScottF]

I've owned several pre-wwi fedoras with cords, and have had a very difficult time locating any information about the cords. It's basically been - yellow = cavalry, etc.

My friend owns the attached hat and believes it is Spanish-American War-era. The quality and design of the hat support this (based on my limited knowledge), but I can't find any information about the pin or cords. Can anyone help, or point me to a good reference? Thanks.

(photo to be posted as soon as I get to a different computer)

 

[ScottF]

...and the photo

 

[Héctor Fernández]

It is definitely the 22nd Infantry Division/Regiment I"m not sure about the F, but I'm thinking it is the company.

I'm doing some checking about their campaigns.

The blue and white cord signifies Infantry. You see it today around the arm on the Class A uniforms in the form of a braid.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Héctor Fernández]

Check this out.

http://www.spanamwar.com/22ndus.htm

 

[ScottF]

Thanks Hector.

 

[1967Cougar390]

It is definitely the 22nd Infantry Division/Regiment I"m not sure about the F, but I'm thinking it is the company.

I'm doing some checking about their campaigns.

The blue and white cord signifies Infantry. You see it today around the arm on the Class A uniforms in the form of a braid.

Hope this helps a bit.

On the lighter side F could be for F Troop.

On the serious side that hat is a great piece of history.
Steven

 

[ScottF]

Does it look to be Spanish-American War era, or something a little later?

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I've owned several pre-wwi fedoras with cords, and have had a very difficult time locating any information about the cords. It's basically been - yellow = cavalry, etc.

Use of the pins to denote regimental number & company letter goes back to 1872 & the Indian Wars with the Infantry using crossed rifles & the Cavalry using crossed swords. The tradition carried thru the Spanish American War and for a period after.

Blue cords also denotes Infantry. Note the cord is hand twisted & not machine braided. Original machine braided cords seem to be more common. Post Civil War I don't know of any significance between hand twisted & machine braided. During the Civil War forward units like the dragoons & noncombat units such as engineers, medical, & orchestra units were permitted to wear hand twisted cords of various colors. Yellow yarn cords were only worn by officers. Generals wore cords made from "yarn of gold bullion".

Does it look to be Spanish-American War era, or something a little later?

Assuming the pin is original & not a reproduction (appears to be original) it's safe to assume its from an era beginning in 1872 thru the end of the Spanish American War in 1898, plus a few yrs after.

Enjoyed your post & pic.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I won't quote percentages because I won't be accurate from memory. But an interesting fact of the Spanish American War being the first War off our shores, a large percentage of volunteers enlisting to go to Cuba were running & hiding from the law.

 

[1961MJS]

Please post another picture showing the whole hat, front and side both. Looks like SpanAm war, is the cord white and blue or faded gold and black? Gold and Black is officers. Blue is Infantry, then it switched to White, but when it was white, the cords weren't worn. The hat pin is SpanAm era. If that's a Montana peak, it could also be WW1.

I found a link to a white and blue hat cord from S&S Firearms. It's WW1.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=HC26AHi

Later

 

[ScottF]

The cord is white and blue. It's not my hat and I don't currently have access to it and only took two photos - the one shown already and this one of the size tag. It's the typical tan rough felt (possibly just very dirty) with one-three rows of stitches around the brim - he had another and I can't remember which had three and which had one. He would not let me lift the sweatband to look for other tags.

It was not the Montana peak - it was the SAW style, but without the pushed down front of the crown.

 

[1961MJS]

Thanks, the reason I thought it was a Montana Peak is because of the grommet vent hole. its usually associated with the Montana Peak type hats and is of more modern origin. SpanAm hats had small holes just pocked in the felt. Many of the holes were in the pattern of a star. The pin is 22nd Infantry, company F, but that type pin was round for a while. if it's bright brass (originally) it is probably earlier, if it's blackened, it's probably WW1.

Later

 

[ScottF]

When I first saw the hat I thought 1900-1918 - it does not have the holes in the felt like Spanish Am War hats I've seen in the past. That's why I posted the pics of the cords and pin. The thing about the hat that does look older than that is it's wear pattern. Those hats came back from Cuba looking really beat because they were worn in lieu of helmets, whereas WWI hats did not see near as much wear (in my experience) unless they were worn after returning home, but then the cords and pin were generally removed.

Does the size tag tell us anything?

 

[alanfgag]

Pre WWI cord, not for military service, I think...

 

[1961MJS]

dang Alan, that's one strange combination of civilian and Span Am military in one hat. The shape and color are totally military, but the bow is a weird combination of a civilian knot that's CLOSE to a military bow. No military hats had the brim trim, the brown color seems really strange.

Again, DANG.
Later

 

[ScottF]

Anyone have thoughts on the size tag pic? Also, just got this pic of the hat:

Any help with this is greatly appreciated, as I have a purchase decision to make. Thanks!

 

[alanfgag]

dang Alan, that's one strange combination of civilian and Span Am military in one hat. The shape and color are totally military, but the bow is a weird combination of a civilian knot that's CLOSE to a military bow. No military hats had the brim trim, the brown color seems really strange.

Again, DANG.
Later

It's an odd hat - a dandy I would say. The brown edge binding is actually the finishing of a silk under brim wrap. This is a detail more often seen in formal hats. Maybe an early "dress" western. It was for sale in a store in Cheyenne, Wyo during the first decade of the 20th century.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Don't take this as an expert opinion, but that appears to be a WW1 Campaign hat, note the oblong channel for the leather chin strap and the front, left and right side vents in the hat. The Span Am stuff had Star and sunburst vents.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1904-Campaign-Hat-with-Star-Vent-IDd/124023784718

The above has a good picture and seems correct to me and it's 4 years past the SpanAm war. note that the one below has the same oblong vents and the leather chin strap.

http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques...-hat-john-b-stetson-company.35829.archive.htm

Later