Pop's Jackets

[L'Onset]

Hello all, and may you have a very wealthy and healthy new year

I've been searching in the forums but haven't found but one comment about Pop's leather jackets made in Turkey.
Any of you has experience on them? Their A2 are custom made by about 290 -375 US$ (depending on whether goat- or calfskin) including shipping to most places in US or Europe, and though I know these materials aren't what the 'purist' consider accurate, the makers advice for calf better than goat or even horsehide.
Anyway, putting this question aside, I'd like to know if any one has bought from them, how was the process and about the fitting of the jacket.

Pictures woud be very welcome.
Thank you

 

[Fletch]

Funny, I know we've had some posts about Pop's and even found some on search. Try just the word pops (no ' ) in the Outerwear forum.

Reports vary about their quality, but they get their best ratings from active duty and former military.

 

[L'Onset]

Thank you Fletch. I've had some notice about their quality and about overall quality of turkish made leather products.
Is about fitting I'd like to hear.
I'll search harder, because I know there is something I once read.

 

[HackerF15E]

I don't own a Pop's A-2, but I've certainly had plenty of squadronmates who did.

Overall, I think the 'purist' would be disappointed...a USAF guy looking for an improvement to his issue A-2 will not.

Their hides tend to be thicker than the Saddlery/Avirex A-2s, but the cut/design has that 'not quite right' look. Remember, Pop's is where the side-panel/underarm gusset mod (as well as the slit pocket, inside pocket, and inside pen pocket) originated and became popular prior to the late '98 modification to the modern A-2 (I'm trying to start a trend and call this one "Version 3").

Many guys get oddball variations made to their Pop's jackets -- leather cuffs and waistbands, snaps at the bottom of the windflap, side-entry pockets, etc. Plus, many variations in liners are on the Pop's models; they do a satin-ish liner with a funky map on it, blood chits, goretex zip-in liners, etc.

I think that if a historical purist physically went to the Pop's store in Adana, they could have their jacket 'customized' to follow the WWII design to a T. I bet it would be a pretty nice product.

 

[Fletch]

Maybe, but one would have to find oneself in Turkey on other business or pleasure...

Hey, here's an idea...anyone broken into Topkapı lately?

 

[HackerF15E]

Maybe, but one would have to find oneself in Turkey on other business or pleasure...

I think that's the key to the discussion here; if you're simply going to mail order (and you want something like a WW2 spec jacket), you'll have to be very specific about what features you do/don't want, and even then the shape/sizing may not meet your hopes.

If you're happy with a well-built 'modern' A-2, you'll probably by pretty happy with the product.

 

[subject101]

Well, my next purchase is going to be a leather B-15 and Pop's is my first candidate so far.

I already own a purist ELC A-2 and this time I want functionality. I want removable fur collar, removable lining, inner pockets and I don't want too much stiffness.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I asked this question here about a year ago. It seems Pop's are well made but cut 1980's style (or modern if you prefer to ignore the decade).

They are a well known maker but on their site they describe goat leather as being a cheap/lesser hide which is quite wrong. Goat is far more abrasion resistant than cow and is a tough as horse. So if they get that detail wrong, what else are they missing?

 

[HackerF15E]

So if they get that detail wrong, what else are they missing?

Again, you have to understand:

1) They're not native English speakers...things *do* get lost in translation (just look at the Oxford Leather Shop website for some fun examples!)

2) Realize the audience they're primarily marketing to: active USAF pilots who will either send their issued A-2s to be modified or will go to the store in person to buy a custom-made jacket. As one of these guys, I can tell you that the vast majority of us don't give a crap what kind of hide the jacket is made of, so long as it is comfortable and tough, and 9 out of 10 times couldn't tell you what type of hide their own issued jacket is made of. If that's your customer base, I don't imagine that they're all that concerned about getting the details correct on your website for the anoraks.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Again, you have to understand:

1) They're not native English speakers...things *do* get lost in translation (just look at the Oxford Leather Shop website for some fun examples!)

2) Realize the audience they're primarily marketing to: active USAF pilots who will either send their issued A-2s to be modified or will go to the store in person to buy a custom-made jacket. As one of these guys, I can tell you that the vast majority of us don't give a crap what kind of hide the jacket is made of, so long as it is comfortable and tough, and 9 out of 10 times couldn't tell you what type of hide their own issued jacket is made of. If that's your customer base, I don't imagine that they're all that concerned about getting the details correct on your website for the anoraks.

The Fedora Lounge site does cater to the 'anoraks' where hide matters a great deal so my comment about Pops is sound. Any leather specialist who doesn't know the properties of goat has a problem. And it has nothing to do with language. English is my second language too.

 

[subject101]

What I understand from Pop's explanation is that they do better calfskin. Other manufacturers extra charge for cowhide while for some others it only exists horse hide.

HackerF15E, did you ever try/touch any of your squadronmates Pop's jacket?

 

[HackerF15E]

The Fedora Lounge site does cater to the 'anoraks' where hide matters a great deal so my comment about Pops is sound.

That was a comment about the Pop's website, not about TFL.

I was simply countering your open-ended (and loaded) question, 'if that's wrong, what else?". My point was, there's nothing 'wrong' if the customer base is happy with the product. I have never heard a USAF pilot who was looking at one of the services that Pop's provides be concerned with a hypothetical problem/inaccuracy/wrong that you are implying may exist. Again, as long as it fits well, feels good, and looks good, that makes the vast majority of Pop's customers perfectly satisfied. Any other details about the product outside of that are simply not in the sphere of interest of those customers. They're not trying to attract, or catering to, the customer base that Good Wear or Eastman do (yes, anoraks no matter how you choose to discuss it, and that's what I was talking about).

Regarding those on TFL who might buy from Pop's, sure I understand your comment, and it should be taken in context with the other comments about the design and detail of the jackets they make. I agree that folks who are looking for a particular type of jacket should be aware that there will likely be deviations away from the 'A-2 standard' in a Pop's product.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Goatskin is very cheap in Turkey. Pop told me back in 2001, he considered it sub-standard leather and prefered cow. He would not make any changes to his his standard jacket ie a copy of a WWII jacket. Why? he thought his version was more pleasing to the eye. I have to think it was easier to make his version of the A-2. I bought one out of cow/calf. Very soft and good grain. I wore it for a few years and gave it to my uncle. His sons run the business now and they make a good product, talking construction and materials only. Don't look for a spot on A-2/B-3 etc.

 

[L'Onset]

Thank you

Thank you gentlemen, that's the type of information (HackerF15E, Phantomfixer, and all the others) I was looking for.
I'm not sure yet if i'll finally pull the trigger on a Pops jacket, but may be just because I'm better informed now. If I do, I'll post a review and pictures.
Perhaps while I make my decision new pictures and reviews arrive from other loungers about other non-high-end jackets. For those I have no doubt at all that they are worth every dollar, but alas! I don't have them

 

[subject101]

I bought one out of cow/calf. Very soft and good grain.

Do you mean that it wasn't a stiff jacket?

 

[Seb Lucas]

That was a comment about the Pop's website, not about TFL.

I was simply countering your open-ended (and loaded) question, 'if that's wrong, what else?". My point was, there's nothing 'wrong' if the customer base is happy with the product. I have never heard a USAF pilot who was looking at one of the services that Pop's provides be concerned with a hypothetical problem/inaccuracy/wrong that you are implying may exist. Again, as long as it fits well, feels good, and looks good, that makes the vast majority of Pop's customers perfectly satisfied. Any other details about the product outside of that are simply not in the sphere of interest of those customers. They're not trying to attract, or catering to, the customer base that Good Wear or Eastman do (yes, anoraks no matter how you choose to discuss it, and that's what I was talking about).

Regarding those on TFL who might buy from Pop's, sure I understand your comment, and it should be taken in context with the other comments about the design and detail of the jackets they make. I agree that folks who are looking for a particular type of jacket should be aware that there will likely be deviations away from the 'A-2 standard' in a Pop's product.

Okay, I see where you're coming from.