Pondering the giant quality disparities of the Schott 184SM (and the assorted others)

[Bluechel]

I collect Schott 184 SM jackets. As many of you here may have a similar habit (whether it's Aeros or LW or Vanson or Finecreek or ALL or what have you), you probably understand that the real discovery and bonding is in the holding and wearing and studying carefully in person. I don't know why I got so deep into this sort of stepchild of jacket types, and I am certainly moving on into JL and others right now....but I wondered...does anyone else see the vast differences in leather quality within the same nomenclature? Is there any other jacket so ultimately mass-produced that has a broader continuum of hide quality? Just wondering if anyone else has noticed. It's quite stark if you have handled enough specimens.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I've got a couple versions of these. Amazing jackets especially for the money ($100-200 range). I'd say even bigger bang for buck than the usual Brooks/Kehoe/Fidelity, etc. but that's my subjective take.

The difference in the two I have is one is clearly a 100 series Schott leather, i.e. naked, full aniline, etc. and the other is more of a 600 series leather, more top coat heavy but will evolve to something really nice with time. So some of what you're talking about is the naming convention because I believe the name tag in the liner generically calls them all 184 SM or something like that, but the tag in the pocket (when they have them) may be categorized as its own series (100 vs 600 series leather, zip out fury liner, detachable fuzzy collar, bi swing no bi swing, etc.).

The 100 series is going to feel "best" to most every day people. But there's pros/cons just like anything else.

First comparison that jumped in my head is Vanson "comp" weight. Lots of variations over the years and some strong opinions about which are best, etc. But the model doesn't change i.e. an Enfield is clearly an Enfield. Whereas one of these so called 184sm have a wide range of looks and options. And in Vanson's case, it's more about changing out tanneries and probably the reason why the leather changes. With Schott, I think it's more about 100 vs 600 leather.

Like all things Schott, I think at new prices they're probably not worth it (but that's true for all jacket makers in my opinion). But like most Schotts, in the secondary market, Schotts hit above weight, again in my opinion, and that's for either the 100 or 600 series leather. You can regularly get $800-1000 price new Perfectos for $300-500. And on these A2 style jacket, they're commonly found in the $100 and even sub $100 range, albeit, pretty beat up.

Not trying to turn this into a look what I got for sale takeover, but I have some notes about the 2 jackets and leathers styles in my classified posts. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but they're certainly different to the touch and how they evolve.

Edit: The 164 size 42 is 100 series leather. Very soft, feels "best", but you can see the con of it having picked up salt stains. The undetermined model size 38/40 is 600 series leather. Not as soft, but tough as nails and has it's own evolution.


https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-2-size-38-40.107428/#post-2925669
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-164sm-size-42.107427/#post-2925668

 

[Bluechel]

Now that's interesting as I am not aware of the 100-600 series in the 184SM. I have only seen the white ta which has the size and maybe a clue to the year of production in the 5th digit.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Now that's interesting as I am not aware of the 100-600 series in the 184SM. I have only seen the white ta which has the size and maybe a clue to the year of production in the 5th digit.

I don't know which year they started putting tags in the pocket, but you can see the models there that give more details. I've seen 164, 174, 184, etc. Then you need to research what leather was actually used. Usually in the schott forums you can pick up details once you have the exact model and possibly the year as you noted.

The brand new 184 have some of the softest cowhide leather I've ever handled. Pricey as new, but wow it was cool.

 

[Bluechel]

I don't know which year they started putting tags in the pocket, but you can see the models there that give more details. I've seen 164, 174, 184, etc. Then you need to research what leather was actually used. Usually in the schott forums you can pick up details once you have the exact model and possibly the year as you noted.

The brand new 184 have some of the softest cowhide leather I've ever handled. Pricey as new, but wow it was cool.

You mean the latest ones? I just tried one on and it was wonderful, but I have. O idea where they are sourcing now, India?

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

You mean the latest ones? I just tried one on and it was wonderful, but I have. O idea where they are sourcing now, India?

yeah, I tried one on maybe 9 months ago. Was spectacular. I think all the leather is US unless it specifically says Italian Horsehide in the jacket description.

This one. It has the USA tag so I think that means materials and made in usa. vs "made in USA" tag which means materials were imported.

https://www.schottnyc.com/products/a2-naked-cowhide-jacket.htm?catID=

 

[Bluechel]

I just bought a 52 off fleabay from a seller in the UK (as my size is $1140 here!) and it was MINT and amazing. Suffice to say even with the almost $40 shipping it was a steal.

 

[PeterRocco]

I've got a couple versions of these. Amazing jackets especially for the money ($100-200 range). I'd say even bigger bang for buck than the usual Brooks/Kehoe/Fidelity, etc. but that's my subjective take.

The difference in the two I have is one is clearly a 100 series Schott leather, i.e. naked, full aniline, etc. and the other is more of a 600 series leather, more top coat heavy but will evolve to something really nice with time. So some of what you're talking about is the naming convention because I believe the name tag in the liner generically calls them all 184 SM or something like that, but the tag in the pocket (when they have them) may be categorized as its own series (100 vs 600 series leather, zip out fury liner, detachable fuzzy collar, bi swing no bi swing, etc.).

The 100 series is going to feel "best" to most every day people. But there's pros/cons just like anything else.

First comparison that jumped in my head is Vanson "comp" weight. Lots of variations over the years and some strong opinions about which are best, etc. But the model doesn't change i.e. an Enfield is clearly an Enfield. Whereas one of these so called 184sm have a wide range of looks and options. And in Vanson's case, it's more about changing out tanneries and probably the reason why the leather changes. With Schott, I think it's more about 100 vs 600 leather.

Like all things Schott, I think at new prices they're probably not worth it (but that's true for all jacket makers in my opinion). But like most Schotts, in the secondary market, Schotts hit above weight, again in my opinion, and that's for either the 100 or 600 series leather. You can regularly get $800-1000 price new Perfectos for $300-500. And on these A2 style jacket, they're commonly found in the $100 and even sub $100 range, albeit, pretty beat up.

Not trying to turn this into a look what I got for sale takeover, but I have some notes about the 2 jackets and leathers styles in my classified posts. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but they're certainly different to the touch and how they evolve.

Edit: The 164 size 42 is 100 series leather. Very soft, feels "best", but you can see the con of it having picked up salt stains. The undetermined model size 38/40 is 600 series leather. Not as soft, but tough as nails and has it's own evolution.


https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-2-size-38-40.107428/#post-2925669
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-flight-jacket-164sm-size-42.107427/#post-2925668

Hi
I just bought off eBay a 184SM looks to be new model. Dark Brown Silk lining.
have to check the white pocket tag.
When you talk about Schott Bomber Jackets How far you going back? I
have a Model I say from the 1970s the leather is thick and heavy. When I get back home would like to post a picture of it. Great write up I really liked It.

 

[Bluechel]

Post it! Yes, the 80’s versions can be thin crap, and even though the 184 is “naked cowhide” they all look like cheap sprayed steerhide!

 

[PeterRocco]

Post it! Yes, the 80’s versions can be thin crap, and even though the 184 is “naked cowhide” they all look like cheap sprayed steerhide!

Hi
Here is my Vintage Schott Bomber.
IS 174 MS . Not sure how old but I say Steerhide not Natural Cowhide.

 

[PeterRocco]

Waiting on my New Schott Bomber. Hope to get it Monday in the mail. I’ll post pictures then. So nice to talk to you.
I Collect Schott Jackets. Have about 20 now different styles. I had more but a few years back sold some. Wish I never did.
I on SCHOTT’S Forum too. PeterSilecchio is my user name.

 

[PeterRocco]

I don't know which year they started putting tags in the pocket, but you can see the models there that give more details. I've seen 164, 174, 184, etc. Then you need to research what leather was actually used. Usually in the schott forums you can pick up details once you have the exact model and possibly the year as you noted.

The brand new 184 have some of the softest cowhide leather I've ever handled. Pricey as new, but wow it was cool.

My 2001 Cowhide is So Soft. Perfect Quality Leather. It came with original Schott Tags still on the jacket. Must of been old stock. Came with the Schott Hanger whitch was nice.

 

[Bluechel]

Big 54! Wow, that's a lot of leather. Your other jacket is a 48, so I'm wondering if you went up for length or....??

 

[PeterRocco]

Hi
Thank You for your question.
I collect Schott Jackets. I been looking for the 502 for awhile only made in 1986.
It is Small on me. Not Sure might sell it at some time.
So as for the size 54 it fits me good. Maybe a size 52 would have been better but I could not pass up this jacket and price.
It is so nice. I had the same jacket in Black made in 1995 but gave it to my Son.
So nice talking to you.
Peter

 

[Bluechel]

Yes I've seen the 502, in fact I think there was just one on eBay...cool jacket, I'll keep an eye out for you. What size?

 

[PeterRocco]

So 52 is My Best Size. Thank You So Much.
Just to add. The 502 was in SCHOTT’S Sportswear Line. Corrected Cowhide. Made to compete with the lesser Leather Jackets out there. Some Member sent me this from SCHOTT’S Forum.

 

[Bluechel]

Big sizes made in the 1980's tough...

 

[PeterRocco]

Yes Very hard to find Vintage Jackets in Large Sizes.

 

[Bluechel]

ALMOST! https://www.ebay.com/itm/2561354053...pid=5338596370&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

 

[PeterRocco]

ALMOST! https://www.ebay.com/itm/2561354053...pid=5338596370&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

I just bought off e bay this size 48. Great Jacket has original zip in/out Liner. Style 502 only made in year 1986.