Pocketwatches

[Talbot]

Good to know its safe. Appreciate you sharing it with us.

 

[Tommy H]

My grandfather left me a pocket watch. I already wore three piece suits often so I began wearing the pocket watch with the waistcoat and I have done ever since. Although it is a look from a past era it shoudn't deter people - all fashions go in cycles anyway and no doubt one day everybody will be wearing them again!

 

[Dennis Young]

Yeah, these dates arent matching up with the family story. I know that my g-grandfather was aboard the Lucy Walker when it blew up. But this probably isnt the watch that was involved. It appears that this watch was one my Grandfather had. He was a county representative to the state capital and was born in 1862.

I've returned the watch to the safe deposit box and it is locked safely away. I suspect (based on what yall have told me) that is probably is gold-filled as it does feel solid and would put a knot on someone's head if they were hit with it. Lol!

Ok. I finally got some more info on the watch from my mom. Stuff I didnt know.

The watch DID belong to my G-grandfather and was involved in the Lucy Walker explosion after all. The story I mentioned turned out to be accurate. But what has happened is that when it was passed down to my Grandfather...HE had it reworked. In the process the entire interior clockworks was replaced. Thats, it appears, is why the serial # doesnt match the date of the Lucy Walker explosion. Lol! Apparently the case (or at least part of it) is original.

Is there any way I can date the actual case?

 

[Shangas]

In my experience, it's impossible to date cases. No records or serial-number & date lists have survived (if indeed, they ever existed).

 

[Dennis Young]

Yeah. I was afraid of that.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

Dennis,

Are there any markings on the case inside the back lid and dust cover (inner back lid)? The American watch industry started about 1857, so before that any cases would have come from England or Europe. English silver and solid gold watch cases are hallmarked, so that we can determine the place and DATE of government assay. Swiss also have hallmarks, but they are not dated.

The thing that bothers me is that you have a 16 size movement, which did not exist during the period you are talking about. Watches were 18 size, so the case hole the movement fits into would have to be made smaller. The holes for a keywind would have to be filled in and the stem and winding crown would have to added. This is a great deal of work.

Still there is a spot that looks like a keywind hole should be and if I stare at the pictures, there almost looks like there is a ring of brass between the movement and the case. The right markings and/or hallmarks would make a believer out of me.

I love a mystery, especially involving watches.

Don

 

[Dennis Young]

Dennis,

Are there any markings on the case inside the back lid and dust cover (inner back lid)? The American watch industry started about 1857, so before that any cases would have come from England or Europe. English silver and solid gold watch cases are hallmarked, so that we can determine the place and DATE of government assay. Swiss also have hallmarks, but they are not dated.

The thing that bothers me is that you have a 16 size movement, which did not exist during the period you are talking about. Watches were 18 size, so the case hole the movement fits into would have to be made smaller. The holes for a keywind would have to be filled in and the stem and winding crown would have to added. This is a great deal of work.

Still there is a spot that looks like a keywind hole should be and if I stare at the pictures, there almost looks like there is a ring of brass between the movement and the case. The right markings and/or hallmarks would make a believer out of me.

I love a mystery, especially involving watches.

Don

Well, I know there is a place on back where the key used to go. I dont know if you can tell from the photo, but on the inside back cover where the engraving is, there is a small round spiraly ...plug (I dunno what ya call it) where I think the key may have gone. Also when I look inside the movement cover, there appears to be a barely distinguishable goldish spot opposite the plug. So it looks like someone has ...plugged up that hold with a decorative bit or work.

There are markings inside the back cover. I'm guessing here because I dont have my glasses at the moment...or a magnifying glass, but it appears to say:

P & Co (But it may say F & Co).

Under that are 2 emblems. One looks like a horse head. Beside it appears to be a lion in the style you see on English heraldry.

Beneath that are numbers. I think it says 3212.

Same thing is stamped inside the front dust lid as well as the lid that covers the case movement.

I dont know if this means anything, but when looking at the inside movement, it looks like the 2 screws securing it in the watch have tiny spacers of some sort attached.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

Could that be a "B & Co"? Could that be a bear? If so, this is Baume and Co . They were importers of watches into England and were a branch of Baume watches made in Switzerland. See http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/casemarks.html about 40% down the page. The head could be a king or queen of the time, proof of having paid the import tax into England. see Duty Mark at http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html

They have been around for a long time.

It is all very difficult without seeing a clear picture of the hallmarks.

Still, you are making a believer out of me.

Don

 

[Dennis Young]

Heh...I dunno Don. Maybe I can take another pic that is a bit clearer. Personally my old eyesight is so bad now its just hard for me to tell. I have a feeling that this watch is just a combination of parts now that my mom told me what happened. Some parts are probably a lot older than others.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Here's my father's AN-5740...made by Hamilton and issued to aircraft navigators in WWII. It originally came with a shock-proof case that protected it from aircraft vibrations during long flights to a target.

Dad was a fighter pilot, but he always liked pocket watches. I don’t think fighter pilots were issued AN-5740s, so I expect that he acquired this watch via military “alternate channels”. The fact that he came home with it is further evidence that it wasn’t officially issued to him. He was honest to a fault, and at war’s end he turned in everything that had actually been given to him by Uncle Sam, including his dang flight jackets...

I found the watch last year after Dad passed away. It was in his chest of drawers, with some old pocket knives and such, and it probably hadn’t been wound in years. I carefully wound it a few turns and it immediately began running again…just like it was still 1945.

AF

 

[Don Dahlberg]

This is a Hamilton 4992B Master Navigation Watch. AM-5740 is the military name. It was based on the famous Hamilton 992B Railroad Watch. They added the center seconds hand and a hack feature that stops the watch when you pull out the stem. This allowed them to set the watch to the second. Knowing the exact time is very important to celestial navigation. An error of just 4 seconds results in an error of up to a nautical mile in position. As the dial says, it was set to Greenwich Civil Time.

I do not know if fighter pilots were issued a master navigation watch. I would like to find out. About 95,000 Hamilton watches were made. Other companies also made their versions as well. That is a large number, so fighter pilots may have used them, although they may have been difficult to use and fly a plane at the same time. There was also a hack wristwatch that was more appropriate for single seat planes and there were clocks in the instrument panel. If anyone has a living relative who flew in the war, it would be great to hear what they used for a timepiece.

Anyway, your watch looks like it was actually used.

Don

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thank you, Sir! The watch's back is quite worn so that what's written there is difficult to read...but you're right...I think it says AM-5740. I was thinking it might be "AN" as in "ARMY/NAVY" like the AN-J-3 flight jacket.

Thank you for the information. BTW, Dad used the watch quite a bit, partly in WWII and partly in civilian life after the war.

AF

 

[Stearmen]

Free Watches

Here is my little pocket watch collection. They were either inherited except the last one, which was a graduation present!

 

[Shangas]

I love the Elgin! I've always wanted a vintage or antique huntercase watch with the hinge at 6 o'clock instead of 9. But they're almost impossible to find.

 

[jamespowers]

I love the Elgin! I've always wanted a vintage or antique huntercase watch with the hinge at 6 o'clock instead of 9. But they're almost impossible to find.

Interesting. They are fairly common here. I must have about a dozen.[huh]

 

[Shangas]

I've never seen more than a few. It led me to believe that perhaps they weren't that common.

 

[jamespowers]

I've never seen more than a few. It led me to believe that perhaps they weren't that common.

Many of them must have not made it over there.
It depends on the era and the maker too.

 

[Oldsarge]

My great-grandfather's railroad watch has been cleaned and refurbished by Renaissance Watch Repair and should be in the mail. I await its return . . . trembling with anticipation. I have a cut Canadian coin showing a steam locomotive for a fob and, once the watch arrives, will set out in search of a chain. quiver, quiver . . .

 

[Shangas]

Good work, Sarge!

What you want is an Albert chain with a small additional length called a 'fob-drop'. These fob-drops usually came with dogclips or bolt-ring clips so that you could clip on a decorative fob of your liking. They're pretty common and easy to find. Best of luck!

And in reply to James, yes that probably accounts for it. When I first got into pocketwatches, I started looking for huntercases, but I just couldn't find one that I liked. So I stuck with open-face watches.

 

[Oldsarge]

Thanx Shangas,
That's just the kind of information I needed. There's a gold chain place a mile or so from the house. As soon as the watch arrives I'll take it and the fob down and go shopping.