Pocket Watch pics, finally

[sonsie]

Figured out the attachment system, so here's the watch I wrote about:

Asking: $100
It's an open face Knickerbocker, and on the inside it says: 7 jewels, Double Roller, Safety Barrel Y. On the inside of the removed back is: Illinois Watch Case Co., ELGIN USA. Guaranteed 10 Years, Supreme, and then 7 numbers which I'm guessing is a serial number. There are also 3 different places where there are tiny initials and numbers scratched into it. Maybe repairer's initials and dates it was cleaned/repaired? I found another one just like it online which claims it's from the 1930's/40's - I have no reason to doubt that since its appearance is consistent with that time period. It's in very good condition with the usual surface scratches on the back. It's not working and since I don't know what to try, I don't know if it's something simple or more significant. I didn't want to experiment. Belonged to my grandfather and/or father, probably both.

I haven't seen the inside of a watch in years and was surprised at how pristine it is. I suppose that's pretty normal since they're almost always closed up. I thought this one was especially pretty because it has vines with flowers engraved on a couple of the parts.

sonsie

 

[McPeppers]

Hmm, nice watch...whats the asking price on that?

 

[sonsie]

Hi,

I always do a search on my items in hopes of finding one just like it. I usually can't, but in this case I was able to find one. Check out this link if you'd like:

http://shop.1asecure.com/prod.cfm?ProdID=229323&StID=1524

The price for that watch is $125.

I priced mine at $100 since I don't know if it works.

It is purty, eh?

sonsie

 

[McPeppers]

Yeah it is...its just the not working part that makes me wonder. Got any jewelers near you...if you have them take a look at it they could diagnose the problem...cuz if its reparable I might have to take it off your hands

 

[sonsie]

I'll check into it. Do you know if they'd charge for that?

 

[McPeppers]

Usually to diagnose a watch issue they dont charge, to repair it requires man-hours so they'll charge for that. However the appraisal value of a working watch in original condition is always higher than a nonworking one. Just make sure if you do decide to have it repaired that they use original parts...will cost more on your end but the sale value will go up...

I have no idea why I'm telling you this because ultimately its going to his my pocket harder if I do decide to buy it from ya...go figure lol

 

[sonsie]

I have no idea why I'm telling you this because ultimately its going to his my pocket harder if I do decide to buy it from ya...go figure

Cuz you're a nice schmoe ..er ..Joe and I'm new at this.

 

[undertaker]

Additioal Info on Knickerbocker Watch Co.

Hello,

I am an amateur watch collector/repair man. This watch is probably in need of a cleaning and oiling since it has been stored for so long. According to my watch books this company was in business from 1890 - 1930. They imported and sold swiss and low cost production American watches by the New England Watch Co. They list the value the mint condition from $100 - $175.
There it is for what its worth, Hope it helps .

Regards,
JS

 

[sonsie]

Hi JS,

This watch is probably in need of a cleaning and oiling since it has been stored for so long.

That's kind of what I'm thinking since there's no obvious dings or damage. I don't remember my dad ever actually using it, so if he got it from his father, it probably sat in his jewelry box for ohhh. . .50 years or so.

Additional information is always appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to stop by!

sonsie - a fellow Volunteer, displaced

 

[ClassicIsBetter]

This watch is probably in need of a cleaning and oiling since it has been stored for so long.

Oh, crap. My grandfather has hundreds of pocketwatches that have been in storage for at least 20 years without being cleaned (to my knowledge.) Pray tell, how long does it take to clean one?

 

[Story]

Sonsie,
What's the serial number on the watch (not the case)?

 

[sonsie]

Pray tell, how long does it take to clean one?

I'm guessing that if someone wants to do a good job and oil it as well, that it needs to be taken apart. I looked into that, and don't have the inclination to buy the oil, tools, etc. that are specialized for it. I have a few things that could substitute for the genuine article, but don't know the first thing about taking them apart and putting them back together again. It does look like it would be fun, though.

What's the serial number on the watch (not the case)?

"2094431" But in front of that, scratched in is "56280". Doesn't sound much like a date, and odd that's it's right in front of the serial number.

edit: ooops! that's on the case. There isn't one on the watch, unless it's underneath the plate so that I can't see it.

I'm curious why you ask. Is there a registry of them somewhere?

I'm hoping to let a jeweler take a look at it tomorrow, possibly clean it. Who would you take it to? I'd prefer a reputable mom & pop shop, but what are your thoughts on the big guys like Zales, Kaye Jewelers, Gordon's, and EZ Money Pawn Shop? kidding about them! lol

sonsie

 

[undertaker]

Watch Cleaning

Hello Again,
Cleaning, when done correctly, will take some time. It does envolve complete disassembly, soaking of the parts, or putting them in an ultrasonic cleaning machine, then putting them all back together, oiling, adjusting, and timing, give or take a few other steps. Needless to say you should find someone who can do it and is reputable. I clean some of mine, some (mainly swiss watches )are more difficult for me, I have them done and they usually cost me around $50.

Regards,
JS

 

[undertaker]

Oh, crap. My grandfather has hundreds of pocketwatches that have been in storage for at least 20 years without being cleaned (to my knowledge.) Pray tell, how long does it take to clean one?

Could get expensive, often they will still run but it is better for the watch in the long run to be serviced on a regular basis.

Regards,
JS

 

[Michaelson]

If you're in the position of having a LOT of watches to deal with, and are honestly interested in collecting and carrying same, you might want to consider joining the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors (NAWCC). You can learn which watches are really worth the extra cost and effort of restoration/service, and which one's are fine for collecting, but not necessarily worth the cost of service. You'll also learn what one's were junk from the get-go and not worth bothering with at all.

Knickerbocker, though interesting to a few collectors, is not that much collected, let alone a 7j version. For sentimental reasons, sure, get it serviced....but otherwise, it's not one I would bother with myself. JMO, though.

Yes, I am a member of the NAWCC, and DO carry and own a LOT of vintage pocket watches. I'm carrying my 18s 21j Hamilton 940 as we speak.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Story]

Serial Number SN Range Quanty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
2094431 2050001 50000 1886 97 18s hfg1k 7j


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
97 323000 59 1884 1893 6 18s hfg1k 7j


Class 6: 18s HC fp
6 193000 made lever model 2-4 7j gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
7 277000 made key model 1 7j gilded slow train (4.5 bps)
96 566000 made lever model 2-4 7j gilded
97 323000 made key model 1 7j gilded
171 22000 made lever model 2-4 7j

 

[Michaelson]

I see you got this from Wayne's Elgin site.

What watch, exactly, are you giving us specs on? Yours? [huh]

The Knickerbocker is a 12s 7j made in the approximately the 1930's. You've given us information about an 18 size Elgin Hunter 7 j, grade 97, made in 1886..



Regards! Michaelson

 

[sonsie]

Well, here's the scoop - Don of Don's Coins and Jewelry said the mainspring has sprung. I asked if that was bad. He said yep.

He directed me to his clock repair shop 3 doors down where an older man looked at it and also said yep. LOL

Is anyone still interested in this poor lil ole ticker?

I think I also found a home for my Waterbury Clock Co. shelf clock. It's old bones are probably 120 years old or so.

sonsie

 

[Michaelson]

The last mainspring I had replaced cost me $25 plus shipping to get it back home. As long as the safety pinion did it's job when the spring 'went', there should have been no further damage done. If you factor in a cleaning, usually $65 to $100, depending on who you go with, plus parts if any more are needed replaced (cracked jewels are usually not found until the watch is disassembled), you'll have about $125 invested in the restoration of this watch.

If you want to sell this one, knowing what you know now and yaving shared it with us, you'll definitely want to seriously consider dropping the price...as once this is all done, the watch has not increased in worth but by a matter of a few dollars. Sorry.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[sonsie]

If you want to sell this one, knowing what you know now and yaving shared it with us, you'll definitely want to seriously consider dropping the price...as once this is all done, the watch has not increased in worth but by a matter of a few dollars. Sorry

S'ok. I had fun, 'met' some people, found a new forum, and learned something. :cheers1:

I don't want to put it in the trash - it's too purty and just adds to the landfill. That's why I threw it out there. If anyone's interested, toss me a number. If not, I'll probably keep it and fix it someday.

This experience may have stimulated a new hobby, or a fun thing to do anyway. I love taking things apart, cleaning them, and putting them back together. I already have 2 other pocket watches to practice on. An Ingraham that was carried through WWII and is DIRTY inside, and a Westclox Pocket Ben. Wouldn't you just know it - the Westclox runs! LOL Sure, they're for sale, too, I just figured no one would want them.

Thanks to everyone for the information! :eusa_clap

sonsie