Pit to Pit Variances

[Damon141]

I apologize in advance if something like this has been discussed in detail but I thought it might help newer members like myself when purchasing a jacket online.

Pit to pit can be so difficult to judge. Nobody really mentions this but P2P will vary depending on where the arm pit seam lies due to shoulder drop and torso to sleeve opening. Arm sythe?

Depending on how high the arm holes are can change the chest circumference dramatically, that’s why so many big guys on here can get away with 22” P2P because some jackets have large arm opening or wide shoulders causing the actual pit seam to fall far below the actual largest circumference of the chest.

The only way I can think to do this is to figure where the shoulder seam will land and then measuring from where the pit should land on your body from a particular jacket rather than just the widest part of your chest.

you veterans surely have thought of this but I don’t see it mentioned on any manufacturer sites.
The Kensington I had was 24” pit to pit and I had probably a 47” chest at the time, but due to how large the arm hole was the actual pit fell far below my pectoral muscles.

This can certainly help when custom ordering or ordering a vintage jacket which seem to have larger arm holes, I realize now that i don’t need a size 48 in vintage and probably could get away with a 46 or even a 44 in some cases.

 

[JMax]

That may help you figure out the variances in numbers that would still work for you, and help provide insight into how the jacket would fit.

In my experience, you are just going to have to handle a lot of jackets from a lot of different makers. Once you get that dialed in shopping online becomes less hit or miss. IMO, measurements may get you into the jacket. No telling how it will look until you try it on and get to know the makers.

I guess like with anything else in life right? Textbooks, theories, spreadsheets, etc., only get you so far. At some point you gotta walk the path.

Something that has helped me— I and others here have personal jacket databases. I track maker, tagged size, measurements and keep photos or notes on whether I like the fit. Plus you get to track how ridiculous this can get. Lol.

At this point I’m pretty dialed in. And I still mess it up sometimes. Which make Marc and Photo very happy I guess.

 

[Marc mndt]

Pit to pit can be so difficult to judge. Nobody really mentions this but P2P will vary depending on where the arm pit seam lies due to shoulder drop and torso to sleeve opening. Arm sythe?

but due to how large the arm hole was the actual pit fell far below my pectoral muscles.

Good points. Also count in the width of the upper sleeves and the room between the arm holes at chest height if you primarily need the extra room for the pectorial muscles. I currently have a 43.5' chest, going by the 21.75' ptp this HD one pocket should not fit. Yet it does fit, quite comfortably actually. The generous upper sleeves and the room between the arm holes at chest height provide the extra width that's needed for the pectorial muscles.

Now look at this FL (old pattern). The ptp is wider than the HD yet it feels quite restrictive in the chest. That's because the upper sleeves are narrow and the room between the armholes at chest height is an inch less than the HD.

In my experience, you are just going to have to handle a lot of jackets from a lot of different makers.

^^This. Whether or not a jacket will fit is more art than science. It depends on the pattern as a whole, ptp is just part of the story.

My jackets range from 21.75' to 25' ptp.

 

[Monitor]

Chest width is the widest point of any well tailored leather jacket thus it is to be taken as an indication of a general size of the jacket and as a fairly precise guideline for the rest of the measurements, which can be deducted from it - But it is essential to measure it as as precisely as possible.

Point is, as @JMax stated, you simply cannot know how the jacket by a maker you're not familiar with, will fit you when you're buying online & only through P2P can you determine whether or not you will even be able to zip the jacket up.

But other than that... Discussing it is moot as photos online can't tell much or anything at all about what the pattern is like.

 

[Damon141]

Good points. Also count in the width of the upper sleeves and the room between the arm holes at chest height if you primarily need the extra room for the pectorial muscles. I currently have a 43.5' chest, going by the 21.75' ptp this HD one pocket should not fit. Yet it does fit, quite comfortably actually. The generous upper sleeves and the room between the arm holes at chest height provide the extra width that's needed for the pectorial muscles.

View attachment 440187 View attachment 440186 View attachment 440188

Now look at this FL (old pattern). The ptp is wider than the HD yet it feels quite restrictive in the chest. That's because the upper sleeves are narrow and the room between the armholes at chest height is an inch less than the HD.

View attachment 440189 View attachment 440190 View attachment 440193



^^This. Whether or not a jacket will fit is more art than science. It depends on the pattern as a whole, ptp is just part of the story.

My jackets range from 21.75' to 25' ptp.

View attachment 440191 View attachment 440192

Yes! because I remember a discussion you and MrProper discussed in the Field Leather thread and pointed out that due to the position of the arm hole insertion, that the arm hole cuts further in than many jackets, which you guy pointed out caused tightness and slight pulling when zipper with arms at their sides.

I know it’s not a complete solution if you don’t have experience with the maker but if you are buying a let’s say a vintage jacket and you can see that the arm holes are more vertical and not inset or scalloped in.

Then if you can have the seller measure the shoulders following the angle of the jacket versus straight across, then while wearing a cheap T-shirt you could take a marker and mark on each side in the rear where the shoulder/arm seam is.
Then ask the seller for the arm seam measurement flat, then double that measurement on a tailor tape and make a loop and put your arm through the loop and bring it to the spot you marked where the shoulder ends, holding the loop vertical but keeping it rounded but pull it down slightly like the natural drape of a jacket. Then you can make another mark on the T-shirt and measure chest circumference from that spot.

I know that might sound strange but I tried it with a few jackets at the mall and it really gives you a better idea than just using P2P because you are factoring in the cut of the jacket. Some jackets pit seam fell far below my actual chest.

Plus you will need to take into account if you have more sloped shoulders or straight shoulders and compare it to the jacket in question which some are more sloped.

I’m came up with this after talking with Dave Himel because he was the only one who asked if I had sloped shoulders or straight