Original A2 or fake? Are forgeries a possibility?

[Maj.Nick Danger]

In my recent foray into the dark and convoluted alleys of ebay, I have encountered (and bid on) many "original" A2 jackets from WW2. At least I think I have. [huh]
With all the talk about fake fedoras and other vintage items, it occurs to me that an "original" A2 would be fairly easy to fake in the hands of an astute forger. I've seen many A2's in excellent condition, that just look too good to be true.
Maybe others have thought this also?
Jackets that are missing part or all of the manufacturer's label, or that have had the lining and/or knits replaced entirely, are immediately suspect to me. Also the fact that repros from companies like Eastman, are so danged true to the originals, that just enough artificial aging done skillfully, could probably fool the average buyer.
There was a spate of A2's in December from the same seller that in retrospect were probably fakes! This particular seller has been mysteriously absent from ebay for several months now,.........hmmmmm, I wonder.

 

[PADDY]

Fugassi A-2s....

I think that's the old Italian/Mafia spelling for a forgery/fake!

Of course they are out there and there are some dealers on Ebay that have got a reputation for pulling the wool over unsuspecting eyes, as not every buyer has the full product knowledge of what to look for.

And even those of us who feel we know the sorts of indicators to look for can be fooled now. Just think, you only have photos to go on, so you are assuming that the jacket you see in the pic is the one you are being sold!

And even if the jacket in the pic is the one you are bidding on, I know plenty of A2 aficianados who have said, "If I really wanted to, I could get a repro jacket and turn it into an original lookalike and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference."

I've even seen people get old labels off a pair of AAF pants, scratch it up so that threads are missing and you cannot see the A2 type on it and it's stitched onto a jacket. Also Sqn patches can be aged and original knits can be stitched onto repro jackets, so you have that moth eaten look!

You have to be very careful, and that's why often you see an great looking original A2 for sale on The Bay and wonder why no-one is touching it!! Sometimes, I have struck lucky because of this, because I have seen an original that others have thought (is it, or isn't it? maybe better play safe!). But when there is big money at stake, the temptation is too great for some to start knocking out 'look-a-like' originals. So be careful and try to get to know the trustworthy dealers/sellers.

 

[bfrench]

A-2 Fakes/ forgeries

I think that's the old Italian/Mafia spelling for a forgery/fake!

You have to be very careful, and that's why often you see an great looking original A2 for sale on The Bay and wonder why no-one is touching it!! Sometimes, I have struck lucky because of this, because I have seen an original that others have thought (is it, or isn't it? maybe better play safe!). But when there is big money at stake, the temptation is too great for some to start knocking out 'look-a-like' originals. So be careful and try to get to know the trustworthy dealers/sellers.

Hi, Paddy,

Some of the best advice I could give is to get John CHapman's Flight Jacket CD.

It shows many of the originals and the details to help make a better informed decision as to what is out there for sale.

Maybe you'd like to pass along the info to your members.

Bill French

 

[PADDY]

John Chapman's CD refence on vintage flight jackets

Bill, it was highlighted a while back and even has it's own sticky at the top of the WWII room. But I totally agree with your sentiments, for any chaps there that want to familiarise yourself with the bits 'n' bobs of flight jackets, have a look at John's site (see top of WWII room), and also within the Reference Library, there are details on ordering his great reference CD.
Thanks for that reminder again Bill.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I'll check into that, thanks guys.

 

[jeep44]

I have two original A-2s- My Dad's,complete with squadron patch,and another "plain" one I picked up years ago.
They are both in fairly fragile condition these days. I wore my Dads A-2 while in college, and the original lining eventually disintegrated,and I had both the cuffs and the lining replaced. Back then,it was just an "old leather jacket", and I liked how it looked (still do). Both my A-2s are 60+ years old now,and the leather looks it. Sweat hardened and blackened the collars on both jackets,and the leather is getting very thin at the elbows and shoulders. I sure wouldn't try to wear either of these jackets ,or any other original A2 now,as they are just too delicate and valuable.

 

[PADDY]

Jeep, post some pics please of the A2's

As I know a number of the members would love to see them. It does sound like they are fragile and I wouldn't recommend you wear them, unless very carefully to a select occasion (like an AirShow, or squadron reunion..etc).
But, you can still pick up A2's that were hardly worn and that could still be worn (but with care of course).

(and welcome to the Lounge, I see you have just joined us, good to meet you).

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Fragility

That seems to be one good indicator of a jacket's being real. That and the fact that most original jackets are also smaller in size.
It also of course helps to know the provenance of a jacket.

Jackets that are alas, wearable, or just TOO wearable seem to be fakes more often than not.

 

[jeep44]

Yes, my Dad's A2 is a size 38 (I take a 40 now),and my other one is a relatively huge 42. I collect WW2 uniforms and gear, and small sizes seem to be the norm. Those Depression kids just didn't have access to all the big Macs and cokes that we did.
Zippers are another problematical area with original jackets-they don't hold up very well on the WW2 vintage coats I have (A2s and M41s).
Up until a few years ago, when he gave it to me, my Dad used to wear his A2 to gunshows and local airshows. He would always have to fend off offers to buy the jacket from many guys.

 

[MudInYerEye]

The funny thing about Eastmans, Aeros, or McCoy's being passed off as originals is that often an original can be had for less than the price of a premium repro (that is, unless you are a size 46 or above).