Not One Everyday Tuxedo Wearing Man Left In This Whole World?

[trapped]

Not so long ago a decent man would at least wear a black tie tuxedo every single night. Maybe blue collar folks did not. The Upper Class. Middle Middle. Lower Middle. Upper Middle Class. All would.

This trend has died somewhere in The Middle Of The 1940s or The 1950s or The 1960s.

Why do you guys think this has happened?

What do The Decent European Male Aristocrats and European Male Royals and The New England Men Of The Upper Class Wear Today As Evening Wear?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Yep, wearing a tux every night was class based behaviour and primarily for privileged people up to the mid 20th century, but beyond that the tux, as worn on special occasions, faded away gradually in the 1960's and 70's, but old men still wore them to special dinners and functions down here until the 1980's.

The truth is we live in a less fastidious era and most men aren't especially motivated to dress up. It can be expensive and time consuming. If you don't have to work hard physically for a living it may seem more achievable. Not everyone shares dressing up as a priority. It's pretty easy to see why. Everything in the West has privileged casual norms and moved towards diminishing ritual and formality - from how we design and decorate our homes to what we wear. This is easy to satirize but it hasn't been all bad by any means.

 

[trapped]

Yep, wearing a tux every night was class based behaviour and primarily for privileged people up to the mid 20th century, but beyond that the tux, as worn on special occasions, faded away gradually in the 1960's and 70's, but old men still wore them to special dinners and functions down here until the 1980's.

The truth is we live in a less fastidious era and most men aren't especially motivated to dress up. It can be expensive and time consuming. If you don't have to work hard physically for a living it may seem more achievable. Not everyone shares dressing up as a priority. It's pretty easy to see why. Everything in the West has privileged casual norms and moved towards diminishing ritual and formality - from how we design and decorate our homes to what we wear. This is easy to satirize but it hasn't been all bad by any means.

Thanks. What an insightful thought.

What made it all changed though? Very curious.

So. There is not a single guy left? If so. Sad.

Do you know what the aristocrats and the royals and the upper class wear for a fancy house dinner party or for a romantic dinner at Michelin - Starred restaurant in 2017 per se? Very curious.

 

[Tiki Tom]

What Seb said. In addition to the functionality, low cost, and the ease of "casual", there is also society's egalitarian impulse. GENERALLY, it is now often considered in bad taste to ostentatiously flaunt the trappings of wealth in everyday normal life. Wearing a tux every evening would no doubt fall into this category. "Who does he think he is? A Vanderbilt?"

Make no mistake, the upper classes still signal their status, but in different ways (not always subtler.) They wear expensive name brand jeans and watches. They live in neighborhoods that signal they are elite. They send their kids to private schools. They pour Pouilly Fuisse' and drive European cars. While, all the while, insisting that they are normal folk ("My dad was an immigrant. I worked my way through college" they might object.)

If it all sounds a little neurotic and conflicted, that's because it is! Class is a bad word, but everybody many people aspire to being at the upper end.

Do you know what the aristocrats and the royals and the upper class wear for a fancy house dinner party or for a romantic dinner at Michelin - Starred restaurant in 2017 per se? Very curious.

"Fancy house dinner party" could cover a lot of ground. A suit, I'm guessing, unless the invitation states otherwise. (I say "I'm guessing" because even ties are disappearing these days!) When in doubt, ask the hostess. As for high end restaurants, they sometimes have a dress code. Check their website or, if really concerned, ask.

 

[Edward]

If there's anyone left who goes so far as to dress in black tie for dinner every night, even at home, they will be either minor European royalty or the sort of noveau riche whose pretension will be painful in the extreme. Mind you, with the occasional exception such as aristocracy, such was always closer the case than the idea that "everyone" did that.

I don't pay much mind to what royals wear nowadays, but it seems that anytime they appear off-duty in public, so far as I've noticed, it's pretty much standard, casual toffwear: white shirt, jeans, blue blazer, no tie.

 

[GHT]

If there's anyone left who goes so far as to dress in black tie for dinner every night, even at home, they will be either minor European royalty or the sort of noveau riche whose pretension will be painful in the extreme. Mind you, with the occasional exception such as aristocracy, such was always closer the case than the idea that "everyone" did that.

I don't pay much mind to what royals wear nowadays, but it seems that anytime they appear off-duty in public, so far as I've noticed, it's pretty much standard, casual toffwear: white shirt, jeans, blue blazer, no tie.

Back in the late 50's I distinctly remember reading an article in, the then excellent newspaper, The Daily Express, about a butler who was offered squillions in salary by a very rich American to become his personal butler back in The States. It lasted three months, the butler just couldn't come to terms with his new employer not dressing for dinner.

Edward & I both know an aristocrat who's home is known as Goodwood. One of the spectacular events that he hosts is called The Goodwood Revival. It would take forever to describe so just google it. The Revival is the must go event of our vintage calendar. The aristocrat in question is one, Lord March. My role at The Revival is that of a VIP taxi using my vintage MG. Lord March will often be seen around the show and takes a hands on approach towards it's smooth running.

One year he had given us a pep talk about the do's and don'ts of ferrying his guests to and from his hotel to the showground. As Edward described, he would wear a corduroy jacket with jeans and an open neck shirt. After the pep talk he asked me if I could run him back to the house. Using my car in The Transport Corps gets me two, free, VIP tickets for the event, mindful of this, I addressed him as 'Sir.' I thought I might come over as sycophantic if I said Lord March or M'Lord. "Call me Freddie," he beamed. "Thank you," I replied, without using Sir or Freddie. "My name is Robert." And we shook hands and I left.

The man is a genial host and enjoyable company but I got the distinct impression that I really shouldn't be calling him Freddie.

 

[Edward]

He has a real reputation for being down to earth like that. Actually, in my experience the real toffs typically are, more often than not, far from the snobs it's all too easy to assume. Of course, since WW1, many of them have been far economically eclipsed by the more successful of the trading classes, and the really serious snobbery can often be found there (typically disguising a heady dose of inferiority complex!).

The Revival really is something else. Not cheap to get to unless you're lucky enough to be able to work it in some capacity, but really quite unlike anything else. Of all the events I've actually worked with the Chap, it's by far the one that ha treated us the best.

 

[Xopher]

I dress in either my Tux or edwardian era style dress pants, and vest I'd say about 5 days a week. Sometimes I feel like an imposter because I only make about $14k a year and dress like I have millions. But I say I don't want my best dressed day to be in a casket. People ask me what Im dressed up for and I just say I'm celebrating. Celebrating life, and myself, and an era where I can wear nice clothing.
I notice it effect my mood. I feel better about myself in a tux or dress clothing, and so I subconsciously start acting more confident, like "of course I'm dressed well I'm worth it" Im finding the cloths really do make the man. People treat me better when I'm dressed well, some even a little nervous to talk to me.
I always feel really odd in normal street cloths on days I have to do yard work or painting and the like. I've come to dispise sneakers and shorts and tshirts...wearing them feels like a waste of a day, like I could have been wearing my classy threads.

I do unfortunately find myself being a little judgmental now that I frequently dress up. I'll see people in casual modern clothing that's beat up and ratty and I catch myself thinking "they obviously don't feel they are worth it" but then then jump into an $80k lifted pickup and roll coal down mainstreet, the irony is not lost there hahaha.

Even having little money doesn't seem to sting as much when I'm dressed well as opposed to wearing ratty clothing and being equally as broke. Dressed up I think "I'll sort this out", dressed down I think "I am so f*cked"...the interesting thing is when I'm dressed up I so find solutions, where as dressed down I don't. The change in mindset effects how I approach problems and dressed up I don't get intimidated by problems as easily.

So in my mind it is very much worth it to dress up as often as I can because of how it really does improve my life.

It is also cheaper in the long run for me to buy nice clothing, for example

$400 dress boots I take care of religiously and they are lasting 5 years so far and still look great.
Vs. Pre dressing up
$100 boots and $80 dress shoes both of which wore out in a year. So over the 5 years, by buying quality I saved hundreds

Another example.

$180 dress shirt. I find myself taking wondeful care of it. And being mindful all day about how I move and what I do. It lasts years and years.
Vs pre dress up
$6 goodwill, Wal-Mart quality shirt. I find that I that I am more willing to be careless wearing it, which causes paint splotches, stains and rips. I end up buying replacement and soon I have mounds of clothing, non of which I particularly like. Just in the way.

By buying quality dress clothing, I have thinned my wardrobe and nothing gets forgotten or neglected. I have little stress of having to organize, clean or get rid of things. It's simple and freeing. Everything I need and nothing I don't and it all fits into 1 or two suitcases.

I read that the average American has 8 pairs of jeans. Probably because they are 20-70 bucks each. I used to have 8+ pair, till I bought a pair of Freewheelers for something like $330. So I now have 2 pairs, the Freewheelers and a pair of Prison Blues I wear for working in. I don't miss the other jeans one bit. Not at all. In the end it's $400 on 2 pairs of jeans or $400+ on 8 pairs of jeans and I only ended up wearing 2 of them most of the time anyway.

I find it really fascinating how much clothing effects my perception of the world and how I interact with it. I suspect it is the same for most people if you put them in a kick ass suit or tux or even high quality denim. I plan on starting a YouTube channel talking about my observations and how it really does simplify and improve my life, and maybe others too.

Anyway those are my thoughts. There are still some of is out there.

 

[trapped]

What Seb said. In addition to the functionality, low cost, and the ease of "casual", there is also society's egalitarian impulse. GENERALLY, it is now often considered in bad taste to ostentatiously flaunt the trappings of wealth in everyday normal life. Wearing a tux every evening would no doubt fall into this category. "Who does he think he is? A Vanderbilt?"

Make no mistake, the upper classes still signal their status, but in different ways (not always subtler.) They wear expensive name brand jeans and watches. They live in neighborhoods that signal they are elite. They send their kids to private schools. They pour Pouilly Fuisse' and drive European cars. While, all the while, insisting that they are normal folk ("My dad was an immigrant. I worked my way through college" they might object.)

If it all sounds a little neurotic and conflicted, that's because it is! Class is a bad word, but everybody many people aspire to being at the upper end.


"Fancy house dinner party" could cover a lot of ground. A suit, I'm guessing, unless the invitation states otherwise. (I say "I'm guessing" because even ties are disappearing these days!) When in doubt, ask the hostess. As for high end restaurants, they sometimes have a dress code. Check their website or, if really concerned, ask.

;-)

The new money guys do flaunt. In gaudy ways sometimes. A lot of old money folks from New England don't really do that. They mostly wear American clothes albeit preppy brand ones. Most drive American cars. Cadillacs and whatnots.

 

[trapped]

I dress in either my Tux or edwardian era style dress pants, and vest I'd say about 5 days a week. Sometimes I feel like an imposter because I only make about $14k a year and dress like I have millions. But I say I don't want my best dressed day to be in a casket. People ask me what Im dressed up for and I just say I'm celebrating. Celebrating life, and myself, and an era where I can wear nice clothing.
I notice it effect my mood. I feel better about myself in a tux or dress clothing, and so I subconsciously start acting more confident, like "of course I'm dressed well I'm worth it" Im finding the cloths really do make the man. People treat me better when I'm dressed well, some even a little nervous to talk to me.
I always feel really odd in normal street cloths on days I have to do yard work or painting and the like. I've come to dispise sneakers and shorts and tshirts...wearing them feels like a waste of a day, like I could have been wearing my classy threads.

I do unfortunately find myself being a little judgmental now that I frequently dress up. I'll see people in casual modern clothing that's beat up and ratty and I catch myself thinking "they obviously don't feel they are worth it" but then then jump into an $80k lifted pickup and roll coal down mainstreet, the irony is not lost there hahaha.

Even having little money doesn't seem to sting as much when I'm dressed well as opposed to wearing ratty clothing and being equally as broke. Dressed up I think "I'll sort this out", dressed down I think "I am so f*cked"...the interesting thing is when I'm dressed up I so find solutions, where as dressed down I don't. The change in mindset effects how I approach problems and dressed up I don't get intimidated by problems as easily.

So in my mind it is very much worth it to dress up as often as I can because of how it really does improve my life.

It is also cheaper in the long run for me to buy nice clothing, for example

$400 dress boots I take care of religiously and they are lasting 5 years so far and still look great.
Vs. Pre dressing up
$100 boots and $80 dress shoes both of which wore out in a year. So over the 5 years, by buying quality I saved hundreds

Another example.

$180 dress shirt. I find myself taking wondeful care of it. And being mindful all day about how I move and what I do. It lasts years and years.
Vs pre dress up
$6 goodwill, Wal-Mart quality shirt. I find that I that I am more willing to be careless wearing it, which causes paint splotches, stains and rips. I end up buying replacement and soon I have mounds of clothing, non of which I particularly like. Just in the way.

By buying quality dress clothing, I have thinned my wardrobe and nothing gets forgotten or neglected. I have little stress of having to organize, clean or get rid of things. It's simple and freeing. Everything I need and nothing I don't and it all fits into 1 or two suitcases.

I read that the average American has 8 pairs of jeans. Probably because they are 20-70 bucks each. I used to have 8+ pair, till I bought a pair of Freewheelers for something like $330. So I now have 2 pairs, the Freewheelers and a pair of Prison Blues I wear for working in. I don't miss the other jeans one bit. Not at all. In the end it's $400 on 2 pairs of jeans or $400+ on 8 pairs of jeans and I only ended up wearing 2 of them most of the time anyway.

I find it really fascinating how much clothing effects my perception of the world and how I interact with it. I suspect it is the same for most people if you put them in a kick ass suit or tux or even high quality denim. I plan on starting a YouTube channel talking about my observations and how it really does simplify and improve my life, and maybe others too.

Anyway those are my thoughts. There are still some of is out there.

Your story inspires me to revitalize my wardrobe ;-)

 

[Benny Holiday]

I like your style, Xopher. I'm with you, man.

I don't get many chances to wear my tux, sadly. I had my tailor make it in 1940s style, midnight blue. Sorry it's not the best photo, a teacher took it at my daughter's Year Six end of year dinner.

I had it made because I kept getting invited to cocktail parties in the retro/Rockabilly/40s scene, what there is of it here anyway, and I'd turn up in a vintage suit when the other guys were wearing their sinner suits. Anyway, I wish there weer more opportunities to wear it. I'd love to go to the Goodwood Revival one day.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I dress in either my Tux or edwardian era style dress pants, and vest I'd say about 5 days a week. Sometimes I feel like an imposter because I only make about $14k a year and dress like I have millions. But I say I don't want my best dressed day to be in a casket. People ask me what Im dressed up for and I just say I'm celebrating. Celebrating life, and myself, and an era where I can wear nice clothing.
I notice it effect my mood. I feel better about myself in a tux or dress clothing, and so I subconsciously start acting more confident, like "of course I'm dressed well I'm worth it" Im finding the cloths really do make the man. People treat me better when I'm dressed well, some even a little nervous to talk to me.
I always feel really odd in normal street cloths on days I have to do yard work or painting and the like. I've come to dispise sneakers and shorts and tshirts...wearing them feels like a waste of a day, like I could have been wearing my classy threads.

I do unfortunately find myself being a little judgmental now that I frequently dress up. I'll see people in casual modern clothing that's beat up and ratty and I catch myself thinking "they obviously don't feel they are worth it" but then then jump into an $80k lifted pickup and roll coal down mainstreet, the irony is not lost there hahaha.

Even having little money doesn't seem to sting as much when I'm dressed well as opposed to wearing ratty clothing and being equally as broke. Dressed up I think "I'll sort this out", dressed down I think "I am so f*cked"...the interesting thing is when I'm dressed up I so find solutions, where as dressed down I don't. The change in mindset effects how I approach problems and dressed up I don't get intimidated by problems as easily.

So in my mind it is very much worth it to dress up as often as I can because of how it really does improve my life.

It is also cheaper in the long run for me to buy nice clothing, for example

$400 dress boots I take care of religiously and they are lasting 5 years so far and still look great.
Vs. Pre dressing up
$100 boots and $80 dress shoes both of which wore out in a year. So over the 5 years, by buying quality I saved hundreds

Another example.

$180 dress shirt. I find myself taking wondeful care of it. And being mindful all day about how I move and what I do. It lasts years and years.
Vs pre dress up
$6 goodwill, Wal-Mart quality shirt. I find that I that I am more willing to be careless wearing it, which causes paint splotches, stains and rips. I end up buying replacement and soon I have mounds of clothing, non of which I particularly like. Just in the way.

By buying quality dress clothing, I have thinned my wardrobe and nothing gets forgotten or neglected. I have little stress of having to organize, clean or get rid of things. It's simple and freeing. Everything I need and nothing I don't and it all fits into 1 or two suitcases.

I read that the average American has 8 pairs of jeans. Probably because they are 20-70 bucks each. I used to have 8+ pair, till I bought a pair of Freewheelers for something like $330. So I now have 2 pairs, the Freewheelers and a pair of Prison Blues I wear for working in. I don't miss the other jeans one bit. Not at all. In the end it's $400 on 2 pairs of jeans or $400+ on 8 pairs of jeans and I only ended up wearing 2 of them most of the time anyway.

I find it really fascinating how much clothing effects my perception of the world and how I interact with it. I suspect it is the same for most people if you put them in a kick ass suit or tux or even high quality denim. I plan on starting a YouTube channel talking about my observations and how it really does simplify and improve my life, and maybe others too.

Anyway those are my thoughts. There are still some of is out there.

People have always worn clothes to change their mood or build an image. The problems begin when people's self-esteem becomes dependent on what they wear. Clothing should be down to a relaxed personal choice. If you feel better wearing grubby jeans and a paint splattered t-shirt, why not? If someone wants to wear a tux to dinner, that's ok too. Variety is what makes the world rich. Where it goes wrong is when you are looked down for making a personal choice.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Based on books, movies, etc., I get the impression that back in the day, because of the value of the dollar and the cost of domestic labor, it was much more common for the middle class and up to have a hired cook (live-in or not). This would have made it a lot easier (and less messy) to focus one's mealtime energy on dress rather than preparing and cleaning up after the meals.

 

[Edward]

Based on books, movies, etc., I get the impression that back in the day, because of the value of the dollar and the cost of domestic labor, it was much more common for the middle class and up to have a hired cook (live-in or not). This would have made it a lot easier (and less messy) to focus one's mealtime energy on dress rather than preparing and cleaning up after the meals.

That was certainly true of England in the 20s and into the early 30s. The war make significant changes - typically, those previously in such employment went into war work, and the idea of servants being something anyone but the extreme upper classes had disappeared.

 

[GHT]

That was certainly true of England in the 20s and into the early 30s. The war make significant changes - typically, those previously in such employment went into war work, and the idea of servants being something anyone but the extreme upper classes had disappeared.

How to put this, my wife and I have always worked, we worked various shift hours, unsociable hours. To indulge in our passion for dance and other hobbies, we just had to keep a diary. The events that we both wanted to attend were booked as leave from work.

As time was such a precious commodity, when we came across a young mother, trying to raise a couple of children alone, after her husband walked out on her and into the arms of an eighteen year old, we decided to approach her and see if she was interested in doing our ironing. She was delighted and so were we. We dubbed her our ironing fairy. Some time later, we came across another lady in similar circumstance and before long we had a house keeping fairy, that was soon followed by a gardening fairy.

Nowadays we've added a capentry wizard, a plumber/builder/electrician and a tree specialist. But servants, I haven't got one.

 

[totallyfrozen]

Not so long ago a decent man would at least wear a black tie tuxedo every single night. Maybe blue collar folks did not. The Upper Class. Middle Middle. Lower Middle. Upper Middle Class. All would.

This trend has died somewhere in The Middle Of The 1940s or The 1950s or The 1960s.

Why do you guys think this has happened?

Inflation. Cost of living increases. Basically, the economy. Tuxedos and formal wear remains expensive, but the percentage of people who can afford that lifestyle has diminished. That's why they're often bitterly referred to as "the 1%".
Also over time, the new generations have been indoctrinated to mostly despise the previous generations as "pretentious, empirical, oppressive", etc. So many of 20-somethings and 30-somethings (even 40-somethings) reject the appearance of traditional affluence. And seem that avoid the look of "old money".

That's the way it appears to me, anyway.



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