Normandie

[manton]

I know there is a general affection here for Queen Mary (that's one of the things that drew me to the site), but I had to ask: are there any Normandie fans here? Or ocean liner fans generally?

As grateful as I am that Queen Mary is still afloat, I must say, if I could trade her for Normandie, I would in a heartbeat. Inside and out, she was just superior to anything else ever put into the water.

Perhaps the greatest interior maritime space ever; first class restaurant:

 

[MK]

Yes

I am a big fan of ocean liners. I learned of Titanic from the pilot episode of Time Tunnel in the late sixties. Shortly after I saw the Queen Mary for the first time. Then there was that less than great film, Raise the Titanic which spurred my interest. Ballard found her around 1980...which was amazing. When they finally showed us the footage a couple of years later, the world was watching. But it wasn't until 1990 when I was truly bitten by the ocean liner bug.

My wife and I were looking to do something different, so we rented a cabin aboard the Queen Mary. It really stuck a chord in me. I started buying books about the floating palaces and we stayed aboard the QM about 3-4 weekends a year.

At that time the grand lady of the seas wasn't doing so well. She had been long neglected and it showed. The company that controlled the lease granted by the city of Long Beach was looking to sub lease her to a company in Japan. The said company intended to tow her to Japan, give her a facelift, then use her as a hotel/casino. Supposedly this was a five year deal (wink, wink). In truth the QM would have never returned.

Luckily, Jim Cameron's 1997 telling of the greatest maritime disaster in history put the grand old lady in the spotlight again. People became interested in ocean liners and as a result saved the QM. It also allowed a number of wonderful books on the subject to be published on liners...most of which are part of my library.

So, yes. I am an ocean liner fan. Though, I can't agree with your opinion on the Normandy being superior in every way to the QM. I agree that the Normandie was more innovative and that she was beautiful. I would also say that the Normandie is the most iconic liner. Her silhouette is unmistakable. She was one of a kind. Her loss is senseless and tragic.

Nevertheless, the Queen Mary was always more popular with passengers. The interiors on the Normandie were a bit pretentious. Most people gravitated to the Queen's warm woods and comfortable feel. Perhaps that is the difference of French versus English style not unlike Sherlock Holmes compared to Hercule Poirot. I suppose it is a matter of choice, really.

I will stop rambling now.

 

[manton]

True, QM generally had more passengers on most voyages than Normandie. There were probably many reasons for that, including the one you cite, that travellers found Normandie a little cold by comparison. However, judging from the photos, I find Normandie's interior much more grand, innovative, and consistent. Pretentious perhaps, but grandly so, and more truly "art deco" in the best sense. Several of her fittings that were taken off the ship prior to conversion were later scattered around NY and can be seen in person today. They are really stunning to me, beyond anything in QM. And the layout of the public rooms was really, markedly superior, owing to the divided funnel uptakes and the lack of a third uptake (Normadie's third funnel was a dummy).

John Maxtone-Graham told me recently that he will shortly come out with a new Normandie book; 80,000 words and tons of pictures. Apparently, he lives six blocks from Vladimir Yourkevitch's son!

 

[MK]

.

I agree her public rooms looked amazing. Such a waste for it to burn. I enjoy Maxtone-Graham's work and a book by on the Normindie will be a must have.

It is too bad that when the French decided to create a new liner, the France, that they didn't make a ship as grand as the Normindie. I suppose the same could be said for the QE2.

 

[up196]

The third funnel

(Normadie's third funnel was a dummy).

I believe the base of the third funnel on Normandie was surrounded by an enclosed "run-around" area for pets, who were housed inside the funnel in quarters as elegant as those of their owners.

 

[manton]

I believe the base of the third funnel on Normandie was surrounded by an enclosed "run-around" area for pets, who were housed inside the funnel in quarters as elegant as those of their owners.

True. There was even a dummy fire hydrant for them. Lucky dogs.

 

[Tomasso]

I grew up hearing stories of steamship travel from my parents and grandparents. Floating hotels. What a way to travel, so civilized.

Here's a clip of the Normandie in action.

 

[manton]

Here's a clip of the Normandie in action.

Great stuff.

She was a legend. Look at how little she disturbs the water. Barely a ripple at the bown, and just a froth astern. That is the Yourkevitch hull in action. 40,000 HP less than Queen Mary, and damned near the same speed.

 

[Flitcraft]

A striking, classy Lady.
Her loss is defintely a tragic waste.

 

[Mojito]

I love the Normandie, and liners in general! Particularly those of the White Star Line (pre merger with Cunard) - my favourite vessel is the Oceanic II of 1899 - not only a beautiful ship, but from the stories I've been able to collect from those who sailed on board her, particularly her deck officers, she was also a happy ship. She came to a tragically wasteful end in WWI - although it seems frivilous to lament the loss of a ship in the midst of so much human carnage, I can't help but spare a pang or two of regret. That elegant liner, built to cross the Atlantic, was set to patrol among the Shetlands. Inevitably she finally ran aground - no loss of life, fortunately, but a sad end to a lovely creation.

Delighted to see you know John Maxtone-Graham, Manton - a signed copy of his The Only Way to Cross graces my maritime history bookshelf. It was given by him to the niece of the Titanic's Sixth Officer on an crossing of the QEII, and in turn she gave it to me.

 

[up196]

Group photo

Normandie - Queen Mary - Queen Elizabeth

 

[John in Covina]

Grand Travel!

They are and were truly elegant and sophisticated by almost any measure and the idea of grand travel is not yet dead, but it only clings on in a few places.

First class journeys by train travel is also a fine example of grand travel that remains available in some places around the globe.

 

[moustache]

Queen Mary

Having been born in Long Beach,Ca,when i was young my parents visited the ship many,many times.We moved to Montana (!!) when i was 6 .But those fond memories will remain with me always.I have,of course,visited the ship a few times since.Every time it is a thrill.

JD

 

[MikeBravo]

Of course I am French!

"Nevertheless, the Queen Mary was always more popular with passengers. The interiors on the Normandie were a bit pretentious. Most people gravitated to the Queen's warm woods and comfortable feel. Perhaps that is the difference of French versus English style not unlike Sherlock Holmes compared to Hercule Poirot. I suppose it is a matter of choice, really.

I will stop rambling now."

My goodness, did you just call Hercule Poirot French? The Great Detective is Belgian (of course you knew that)

 

[PADDY]

Grand old age of steam...

Steam driven transatlantic liners and old steam trains just conjure up a golden bygone age of grandeur.
I've been lucky enough to travel in India on some grand old steam trains (some of the stations still have the old English Raj signs up, eg: Officer's waiting room..etc!). But sadly, I have yet to grace the decks of a grand old lady of the seas. One day, I hope!

 

[Godfrey Park]

Wow!

Normandie - Queen Mary - Queen Elizabeth

What an excellent shot! Do you know what year that photo is from?

 

[Alan Eardley]

Normandie, Queens Mary and Elizabeth in famous photograph

That photograph was taken between March 6th and March 20th 1940.
The Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were 'evacuated' from the UK in to escape German bombing - the unfitted Queen Elizabeth sailed on her secret 'maiden voyage' in February 1940, having narrowly escaping being converted into an aircraft carrier (a fate that took at least two of Italy's finest ocean liners) while 'on the stocks' and having had an equal escape from the Luftwaffe, which 'visited' Southampton, assuming she had been taken there. She arrived in New York harbor on or around the 6th March and was moored alongside the Queen Mary and the Normandie. For two weeks the three largest vessels in the world lay together, but on March 21st, the Queen Mary left New York bound for Sydney, Australia and life as a troop ship. The Queen Elizabeth

 

[manton]

That photograph was taken between March 6th and March 20th 1940.
The Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were 'evacuated' from the UK in to escape German bombing - the unfitted Queen Elizabeth sailed on her secret 'maiden voyage' in February 1940, having narrowly escaping being converted into an aircraft carrier (a fate that took at least two of Italy's finest ocean liners) while 'on the stocks' and having had an equal escape from the Luftwaffe, which 'visited' Southampton, assuming she had been taken there. She arrived in New York harbor on or around the 6th March and was moored alongside the Queen Mary and the Normandie. For two weeks the three largest vessels in the world lay together, but on March 21st, the Queen Mary left New York bound for Sydney, Australia and life as a troop ship. The Queen Elizabeth

Actually, QM had been at that pier since September 1939 (though on the other side; she was moved to make way for QE). She had crossed westbound before the German invasion of Poland, and her eastbound return was cancelled.

The master of QE was given sealed orders from the admiralty and told not to open them until in the Irish Sea. He had about 200 workers on board, who were finishing the interiors and in some cases the infrastructure of the ship. They all thought they were going to Southampton. Once at sea, he opened the envelope which told him to go to New York. The men on board were not allowed to radio home! They told their families, finally, some six days later.

 

[Godfrey Park]

Thanks for the facts

Wow, thanks Alan and Manton for the incredible facts on these ships and this photo.