Norfolk Jacket

[herringbonekid]

My understanding of what a Norfolk is, involves panles of fabric down the front, that cover the belt loops of a fabric belt around the waist, along with all the vents in the back to make the arms stretch comfortably.

agreed. if you'd like my take on what constitutes a true Norfolk jacket, look here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?1801-Norfolk-Jacket&p=1453364&viewfull=1#post1453364

 

[herringbonekid]

Most of them are 1920s and before...the Norfolk Jacket style was really popular back then...even for boys.

understatement. sometimes, in early 20s US catalogues, the Norfolk styled suit seems to be the ONLY style available for boys.

 

[herringbonekid]

that's a very unusual scalloped yoke, pointing the opposite way to normal, but it's not a Norfolk.

 

[Mario]

Yes, I believe the straps are mandatory. I also think that it needs to have a full belt going all around the waist, not just a back-belt.

Somehow this reminds me of all the so called 'Ricky Jackets' out there. Everybody sells them but only very few now exactly what they look like.

 

[Chasseur]

Floey and HBK thank you for the new photos!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

HBK yes I know. I wanted to point out that they are most likely the origin of our beloved beltback jacket styles. So I did write in the comments

The scalloped yoke picture I found "fitting" because the halfbelt still has belt loops. Some transitional style perhaps?

It's also nice to see the development from full to half norfolk and beltback sportsjackets.

Not all of them are "true" Norfolk Jackets. You can see the influence on sportjackets with belts and halfbelts...

Just to make sure that my postings didn't confuse the newbies:
A full Norfolk need vertical straps in the front and a full belt!

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Here's Dr. Watson modelling a very nice and interesting Norfolk Jacket:

 

[Tenorclef]

Hmmm? Agreed based on the helpful pictures I would have to say the jacket I purchased is a hacking jacket rather than a Norfolk. I think the external pockets and action back led me to believe it was of the Norfolk variety as these are typically features you would normally associate with a Norfolk.

Thanks chaps for the very useful insights.

 

[herringbonekid]

Hmmm? Agreed based on the helpful pictures I would have to say the jacket I purchased is a hacking jacket rather than a Norfolk.

terminology isn't that important in the end... (whether you like the jacket or not is more important) ...it only interests the pedants like me who like to trace things back. what you have isn't a hacking jacket either, it's a tweed action-back sports jacket.

 

[Oldsarge]

Though action backs are useful for comfort and flexibility in any case their normal usage is in shooting jackets where the gusset at the shoulder allows greater ease in mounting the gun. The original Norfolk was designed just for that purpose as the reinforcing straps down the front to support shell or game laden pockets demonstrates. A half Norfolk, minus the supporting "suspenders" is a shooting jacket for driven game where the loader carries your ammunition and the retriever handlers pick up the game. Of course, a half Norfolk makes a perfectly smashing sport jacket wether one shoots or not.

 

[Chasseur]

I've looked through many old photos of people shooting and stalking in the period from 1880 to 1930s or so mostly in the UK, but also old French and American shooting photos as well. One thing about older Norfolk style jackets in the 1880-1910s is that I find it pretty rare to see any with the action pleats on the shoulder or down the center of the back. They have all the other other attributes: the straps down the front, the belt, etc. just not the action pleats. For example in the book The Big Shots on Edwardian shooting parties which is loaded with photos, I cannot recall a single jacket with pleats in the photos.

So I guess the action pleats do not become common until the 1920s or 30s then?

 

[Oldsarge]

Good possibility. Buzzaccarini's Men's Coats doesn't give any examples of gusseted shoulders on a coat until an illustration dated 1921 so it may have been something that tailors concocted after the end of WWI.

 

[herringbonekid]

i've never quite understood how the front straps add reinforcement to the pockets, when sometimes they don't even touch the pockets at all; the pockets are set to the side of the strap.
i'm guessing that on the original Victorian version they were constructed differently and the straps later became basically decorative. does anyone have a photo of a really early version which shows the straps performing more of a function ?

 

[GBR]

Not a Norfolk in the slightest, sorry.

 

[herringbonekid]

here's some details of a ladies specialist shooting jacket from the 50s. as you can see the straps aren't sewn down to the body. they're loose, sewn under a yoke / patch at the top and attaching to the front of the saddle-bag pocket, which makes perfect sense; you can fill the pocket with cartridges and the pocket is supported by the strap. i strongly suspect that this is what the straps on the very first version of a Victorian Norfolk did (but, you know, in tweed and for men):

(of course she's wearing a leather cartridge belt thus rendering the superbly designed pockets useless, apart from as make-up carriers).

 

[Oldsarge]

And shooting what would appear to be a Model 12. Obviously a woman of taste even if a bit sartorially confused.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I inherited my grandmother's Winchester Model 12 in 16 guage. Neat little shotgun, that.

 

[Qirrel]

i've never quite understood how the front straps add reinforcement to the pockets, when sometimes they don't even touch the pockets at all; the pockets are set to the side of the strap.
i'm guessing that on the original Victorian version they were constructed differently and the straps later became basically decorative. does anyone have a photo of a really early version which shows the straps performing more of a function ?

I think the original straps (which do not touch the outer pockets, as you say) were reinforcement for internal hare pockets. This way one could tack the hare pocket to canvas or linen hidden underneath the fabric of the strap. This way the pockets are reinforced and the coat prevented from sagging all over the place when you fill the pockets with, well, hares.

 

[herringbonekid]

could be... have you seen an early jacket that suggests it ?

trouble is, most pictures of Norfolks from the teens don't show real shooting jackets. they're nearly all dandified fashion versions, so the straps are purely cosmetic:

supposedly many early true Norfolks had a pocket concealed down the strap, sometimes with a flap like this:

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Summer version

F.Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald 1920s

Robert Montgomery 1930s