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New (I mean, really new) block!

Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
We’ve all seen the story – in the newspaper, on TV, whatever: A nice little feature on the local person who practices the once commonplace but now rare hat-making trade, using the very same equipment used upwards of a century (or even longer) ago.

Change the particulars and it’s almost always the same story. And that’s fine, really. It’s what the story is, so it’s usually at least passably accurate. And it’s interesting enough to hold the average person’s attention for the two or three minutes it takes to tell it, or read it, before we move on to sports or weather.

But the reason most all hatters use old equipment is because that’s what they can find. Back when many (most?) men wouldn’t step outside without proper hats atop their heads, there was a great demand for the hatter’s skills, and hence there were many hatters’ equipment suppliers. These days, the manufacture of hat blocks and flanges and hat-shop tools and machinery is essentially a cottage industry. There are people making this stuff, but it’s far from a mass-production undertaking.

It is fortunate that most of the old equipment is sufficiently basic, and sturdily built, that it remains serviceable all these decades on. But still, it’s old stuff, and nothing lasts forever.

Truth is, the notion that the old equipment is superior on account of nothing other than its age is magical thinking. I’d replace all couple of hundred blocks and flanges in my shop with new stuff, if it were available at an affordable price.

The old equipment is still quite usable, for sure, but it presents its challenges. Old blocks and flanges develop cracks and splits. They get a surface oxidation that has to be addressed lest it transfer to the hat felt. Et cetera. A craftsperson wishes to spend the day working with his or her tools, and not on them.

I did a good turn for my friend the guitar maker, who returned the favor by making a new block. I think it’s downright purty …




 
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jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,100
Location
San Francisco, CA
You know, I was thinking about this the other day...what needs to happen is to connect hatters with 21st century technology. Old blocks can EASILY be replicated with a simple scan and 3d printers.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
I'd have to be brought up to speed on that 3-D printing technology before I could offer an opinion, but I can tell you that wood (poplar, in this case) is a great material for the purpose. Metal heats up too much, and plastics might soften (and perhaps distort?) under the heat and pressure a hat block is subjected to over and over and over again.

But, you know, if there are plastics that would hold up to it, I see no good reason (other than a sentimental preference for traditional methods, which I suppose could be considered a good reason) why a hatter wouldn't use them.
 
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Banky

One of the Regulars
Messages
227
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I've always felt the same. When talking to a few different people making hats they adhere to this old equipment like it's gold. I cannot imagine it's that difficult to find someone to form brand new blocks out of a brand new piece(s) of wood. I get it, we all look at hatters as the saviors of a lost art and trust me, they are doing something that not many people do today. But I had the good fortune of being close to my local hatter whom walked me through the process and I produced my own hat (with tutelage mind you) and was kind of shocked with how simple the basic process is. I know there are "secrets" of the trade I was not made privy to but broken down to it's base components making a hat is not all that complex. And could certainly be accomplished with equipment made today as opposed to a hundred years ago.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
Yes, I've said it at least a hundred times: A person can get the gist of hat-making in a 10-minute video. And he could take 10 years or more before he could claim true mastery of those simple steps.

Oh, and by the way ... I am in no way trash-talking the old equipment. If it works, it works. And it's usually all that's available, so it had better work, eh? But if new stuff works every bit as well, and maybe even better in some cases, well, why wouldn't a person use it?
 
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jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,100
Location
San Francisco, CA
I'd have to be brought up to speed on that 3-D printing technology before I could offer an opinion, but I can tell you that wood (poplar, in this case) is a great material for the purpose. Metal heats up too much, and plastics might soften (and perhaps distort?) under the heat and pressure a hat block is subjected to over and over and over again.

But, you know, if there are plastics that would hold up to it, I see no good reason (other than a preference for traditional methods, which I suppose could be considered a good reason) why a hatter wouldn't use them.

What kinds of temperatures are we talking about here? I am by no means a 3d printing expert, but I can ask around the Replica Prop Forum, which deals in all sorts of those kinds of trades.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
That's a beautiful block, Tony. Have you put it to the test? My biggest concern with modern blocks is will the glue separate over time with the continual application of heat and moisture? That's one reason I would think the older, one-piece blocks are superior.

Brad
 

Dan Allen

A-List Customer
Messages
395
Location
Oklahoma
I would think that if marine glues (epoxies) were used it would hold up. I have read where Marine plywood is tested my boiling.
 
Messages
10,578
Location
Boston area
Given enough time, there will be a 3-D printing material capable of withstanding the rigors of a hatter's use, if it's not here already. I saw that technology in it's infancy first around 1981. It has come a very long way, and the limitations have always been in the materials.
 

1961MJS

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,370
Location
Norman Oklahoma
Hi

Replicating a hat block in wood in a jig setup for replicating an aerospace part in Titanium should be doable. You might be able to purchase a CNC programmed jig in the Seattle area. 3D scan the old blocks, and program the jig. I bet somewhere, someone is already doing this, but not necessarily to hat blocks.

Later
 

jskeen

One of the Regulars
Messages
120
Location
Houston
I've been thinking the same thing for quite a while. Tony, I even called you a few months ago to talk about making a new block for myself, sized to me personal melon. Didn't get around to it yet, but that's not a shock with me. :) However the other idea I had bouncing around under my (slightly snug) hat, was that If I was going to make a block for my head, why not make it in two pieces with a screw in it, so that I could stretch a hat, not just into a little larger oval, but to my shape as well as size? Ultimately decided that it would probably not be worth the trouble.

But here's the tie it. Somebody else was thinking about stretchers, and why are the only option is to try to scrounge up an vintage tool. So he made some. Not exactly the shape I would choose, but the basic mechanism is about what I had in mind.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-WOODEN-HAT-STRETCHER-/121095575287?pt=Antiques_Decorative_Arts&hash=item1c31dbd6f7

he's proud of them though :)
 

Mark G

A-List Customer
Messages
342
Location
Camel, California
That's a beautiful block, Tony. Have you put it to the test? My biggest concern with modern blocks is will the glue separate over time with the continual application of heat and moisture? That's one reason I would think the older, one-piece blocks are superior.

Brad
Brad, I have to disagree about the one piece blocks. They are much more prone to cracking due to internal stress than multiple pieces with the correct glue. Use of a glue such as Titebond III which is both heat and water resistant (also coupled with the right grain orientation should hold up as well or better.

Obviously time will tell.

Dan, marine epoxies should also do the trick but cost can be prohibitive.
 

lewisskimonster

Familiar Face
Messages
74
Location
seattle
Hi Tony!
A lot of great conjecture here on modern vs vintage hat blocks. I hope you post up a picture of one of your famous tall crowned fedoras from this block, as that will be the true measure of how it works.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
Brad, I have to disagree about the one piece blocks. They are much more prone to cracking due to internal stress than multiple pieces with the correct glue. Use of a glue such as Titebond III which is both heat and water resistant (also coupled with the right grain orientation should hold up as well or better.

Obviously time will tell.

Dan, marine epoxies should also do the trick but cost can be prohibitive.

Perhaps I should have asked permission to out you, Mark.

Take a bow.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
That's a beautiful block, Tony. Have you put it to the test? My biggest concern with modern blocks is will the glue separate over time with the continual application of heat and moisture? That's one reason I would think the older, one-piece blocks are superior.

Brad

I have a few old blocks made from multiple pieces. And yes, a couple of them have slight separations where those sections meet.

I'm wondering (thinking out loud, really) if that separation might be more due to non-use than use. You know, perhaps the wood dries out sitting on a shelf (or, more likely, in a storage unit or an attic) for years in ways it wouldn't if it were subjected to the moisture of honest use?
 
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Mark G

A-List Customer
Messages
342
Location
Camel, California
Thanks Tony,

Glues have come a long way in formulation. Most of the old blocks were made with hide glue and that deteriorates with time and breaks down.

Only time will tell if the new stuff measures up.

Glad you liked it.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
Yeah, Mr. DeCou has carved out something of a niche. Lotsa hatters are using his rounding jacks now. I happen to have one of his foot tollickers and a runner-downer.

He also repairs old blocks. While I've yet to have him repair any of mine, I have seen his rehab work up close and in person, and it impresses mightily. He's done wonders with old straw-hat blocks (the "shaped" variety), some even missing chunks here and there, and made tippers to replace missing ones.
 
Messages
10,931
Location
My mother's basement
I've been thinking the same thing for quite a while. Tony, I even called you a few months ago to talk about making a new block for myself, sized to me personal melon. Didn't get around to it yet, but that's not a shock with me. :) However the other idea I had bouncing around under my (slightly snug) hat, was that If I was going to make a block for my head, why not make it in two pieces with a screw in it, so that I could stretch a hat, not just into a little larger oval, but to my shape as well as size? Ultimately decided that it would probably not be worth the trouble.

But here's the tie it. Somebody else was thinking about stretchers, and why are the only option is to try to scrounge up an vintage tool. So he made some. Not exactly the shape I would choose, but the basic mechanism is about what I had in mind.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-WOODEN-HAT-STRETCHER-/121095575287?pt=Antiques_Decorative_Arts&hash=item1c31dbd6f7

he's proud of them though :)

I'm thinking that for purposes of a better fit, all you would really need is a custom made (just for you) band block.

I wouldn't be the one to do it, but I know of at least one anonymous fellow named Art who makes them for his custom-hat buying clientele.
 

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