Neighbors against Habitat for Humanity Project

[Lincsong]

How sad;
http://www.marinij.com/marin/ci_5029025

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

I hope one day someone will figure out a way of house development without having to "build" more homes in any one lot of land

 

[Lincsong]

Floating condominiums??????lol

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

Share?

Blast the new ones and bring back farms?

Let's see some house boats out in the middle of the Pacific ocean,
talk about bad weather.

I hope this arguement between developer and residents is settled so they can all begin happy lives again

 

[Tourbillion]

Oh come on, they want to build four little houses and 3 big ones.

I think the problem the residents have is that the "wrong sort of people" might move in. You know--ones without mid-six figure incomes. This confirms my suspicion that Marin county is one of the snobbiest places on earth. The people there are acting like they are building a 1,000 unit condo for illegal immigrants or something.

It isn't like having 4 non-rich families living there is going to destroy the neighborhood. The only problem I can see at all is that they only have single car garages. I feel suburbs need more parking than that.

Lincsong, aren't you from the Marin area? I'm not saying this is you, but it seems that every time I meet someone from there, they say "I am from Marin" and then pause and strike a little pose where you are supposed to gush over how wonderful they are and how beautiful it is and the like.

 

[reetpleat]

Oh come on, they want to build four little houses and 3 big ones.

I think the problem the residents have is that the "wrong sort of people" might move in. You know--ones without mid-six figure incomes. This confirms my suspicion that Marin county is one of the snobbiest places on earth. The people there are acting like they are building a 1,000 unit condo for illegal immigrants or something.

Well, I am pretty dangted liberal. But I personallywould not want to live next to a project. I have seen in seattle houses owned by dshs, that are built for low income people in the middle of middle class neighborhoods. And typically, they end up a bane to the neighborhood due to punk kids, peole coming and going all night, garbage and petty crime.

Many poor people are decent hard working good neighbors, but some are not. There is areaon why some people are poor and that is that they do not know how to handle life very well. Certainly they could use help learning how to do so, and help not beling homeless. But I don't want to live next to people who do not know how to handle life very well. THat often leads to lack of respect for the neighborhood, neighbors, property, and kids who also do not have any respect for property or people.

I hate to say it, but I would not want this to be next door to me. On the other hand, I would gladly volunteer to help build hosing for poor people somewhere. Just NIMBY I guess. Who would have thought I would ever be one of those people. Not me.

 

[Zemke Fan]

What else do you need to know?

Quotes from the story:

The property owner, Pan Pacific Ocean Inc., plans to divide the tract into seven parcels, building three market-rate single-family houses ranging in size from 6,244 square feet to 7,446 square feet...The remaining .85 acres would be used by Habitat to build four three-bedroom houses of about 1,435 square feet..."

"More than 70 residents of the neighborhood, near both Tiburon and Mill Valley, have started to band together to raise about $100,000 for attorneys' fees to fight the project. Neighborhood opposition is centered on lower property values, increased traffic and parking congestion."

 

[Feraud]

Well, I am pretty dangted liberal. But I personallywould not want to live next to a project. I have seen in seattle houses owned by dshs, that are built for low income people in the middle of middle class neighborhoods. And typically, they end up a bane to the neighborhood due to punk kids, peole coming and going all night, garbage and petty crime.

Many poor people are decent hard working good neighbors, but some are not. There is areaon why some people are poor and that is that they do not know how to handle life very well. Certainly they could use help learning how to do so, and help not beling homeless. But I don't want to live next to people who do not know how to handle life very well. THat often leads to lack of respect for the neighborhood, neighbors, property, and kids who also do not have any respect for property or people.

I hate to say it, but I would not want this to be next door to me. On the other hand, I would gladly volunteer to help build hosing for poor people somewhere. Just NIMBY I guess. Who would have thought I would ever be one of those people. Not me.

You echo my sentiments exactly.
Let me also add I would not live in an upper class neighborhood either. The children of affluent parents are (generally speaking) neglected in way that outshines lower income children. Spoiled, entitled little "Me" monsters who are a bane on society like the neglected child of lower income families. The rich and poor children are flip sides of the same coin really. The only difference is the poorer ones make the evening news.

 

[Zemke Fan]

You might want to learn more about Habitat for Humanity...

I think the problem the residents have is that the "wrong sort of people" might move in...

I personally would not want to live next to a project...

I hate to say it, but I would not want this to be next door to me.

Reetpleat, from your comments, I believe that you do not know much about this organization, its vision, mission, or accomplishments. Habitat for Humanity is one of this country's most highly-respected, action-oriented nonprofits. It works in partnership with low-income families, who help build these homes and then pay the mortgage. The essentials (from habitat.org):

• Who we are: Habitat for Humanity International is a nonprofit, nondenominational Christian housing ministry. Habitat welcomes all people—regardless of race, religion, ethnicity or any other difference—to build simple, decent, affordable houses with those who lack adequate shelter.
  .
• Where we build: Since its founding in 1976, Habitat for Humanity has built more than 200,000 houses, providing shelter for more than 1 million people, in nearly 100 countries around the world. A new Habitat house is completed somewhere in the world every 24 minutes.
  .
• Who we serve: Homeowners are selected based on their need for housing, their ability to repay their mortgage and their willingness to work in partnership with Habitat. Habitat does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion or national origin.
  .
• How it's possible: Habitat is able to make housing affordable to low-income families because: (1) Houses are sold through a no-profit mortgage. (2) Individuals, corporations, faith groups and others provide vital financial support. (3) Homeowners and volunteers build the houses themselves, under trained supervision.
  .
• How does it work? Through volunteer labor and donations of money and materials, Habitat builds and rehabilitates simple, decent houses with the help of the homeowner (partner) families. Habitat houses are sold to partner families at no profit, financed with affordable loans. The homeowners' monthly mortgage payments are used to build still more Habitat houses.
  .
• What it's not: Habitat is not a giveaway program. In addition to a down payment and the monthly mortgage payments, homeowners invest hundreds of hours of their own labor—sweat equity—into building their Habitat house and the houses of others.

 

[Fletch]

funny mistake

I would gladly volunteer to help build hosing for poor people somewhere.

Don't poor people get hosed enough as it is?

 

[Viola]

Well, I don't see how one-car garage, 1400 sq. ft. houses are that small. Certainly they are bigger than many vintage homes (I'm thinking of Craftsman bungalows here - I love them)

Its not a shanty town we're talking about here. Its a few working-class homes in a rich area. The horror! The horror!

I have a great deal of sympathy for farmers and the like trying to preserve a low population density in a rural area. But this is a neighborhood with 6,000 sq. ft. homes presented as the NORM; I think the time for concern about urban sprawl has come and gone, and the environmental devestation of those Leviathans greatly outweighs that of their Habitat for Humanity neighbors.

-Viola

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Exactly.

A 'project' as it being used by some here, would honestly imply more then the 4 houses they are planning.

4 houses, no matter how low income are -not- a project.

If anyone begs to differ, I can arrange a tour of projects in South Central to illustrate the difference.

 

[Paisley]

Having lived for 11 years two doors away from Section 8 housing, I can appreciate a homeowner not wanting to live near a project. However, my understanding of HFH is that the folks who move into the houses have to pay for them (at no interest). Big difference.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Again, the people who move into the Habitat home OWNS the house. That is the point. I hated living next door to renters, I love living next door to owners.

 

[reetpleat]

Reetpleat, from your comments, I believe that you do not know much about this organization, its vision, mission, or accomplishments. Habitat for Humanity is one of this country's most highly-respected, action-oriented nonprofits. It works in partnership with low-income families, who help build these homes and then pay the mortgage. The essentials (from habitat.org):

• Who we are: Habitat for Humanity International is a nonprofit, nondenominational Christian housing ministry. Habitat welcomes all people‚Äîregardless of race, religion, ethnicity or any other difference‚Äîto build simple, decent, affordable houses with those who lack adequate shelter.
  .
• Where we build: Since its founding in 1976, Habitat for Humanity has built more than 200,000 houses, providing shelter for more than 1 million people, in nearly 100 countries around the world. A new Habitat house is completed somewhere in the world every 24 minutes.
  .
• Who we serve: Homeowners are selected based on their need for housing, their ability to repay their mortgage and their willingness to work in partnership with Habitat. Habitat does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion or national origin.
  .
• How it's possible: Habitat is able to make housing affordable to low-income families because: (1) Houses are sold through a no-profit mortgage. (2) Individuals, corporations, faith groups and others provide vital financial support. (3) Homeowners and volunteers build the houses themselves, under trained supervision.
  .
• How does it work? Through volunteer labor and donations of money and materials, Habitat builds and rehabilitates simple, decent houses with the help of the homeowner (partner) families. Habitat houses are sold to partner families at no profit, financed with affordable loans. The homeowners' monthly mortgage payments are used to build still more Habitat houses.
  .
• What it's not: Habitat is not a giveaway program. In addition to a down payment and the monthly mortgage payments, homeowners invest hundreds of hours of their own labor‚Äîsweat equity‚Äîinto building their Habitat house and the houses of others.

Can't say that I am an expert on hh, but I have known about it and followed it for years. I honestly love the idea and have meant to look into donating time sometime.

But I am also a realist and know that there is a chance that the people in the program will not make for good neighbors. Who knows the odds? Maybe for every ten good families that move in, there is the one with the drug dealing grandson that moves in and breaks into all the neighbors homes.

I am just saying, that there is a myth that all poor people need is a little help or a place to live and all their problems are solved. Often their problems are much deeper than that. On the other hand, I can think of no better way to break the cycle of poverty than to get these kids out of their environments with bad influences and get them into neighborhoods and schools where they will be subjected to more positive influences.

But I can still understand people's reticence. Not based on the houses not being nice enough, but based on the risk. I mean, right or wrong, they moved into the neighborhoods to get away from that sort of thing.

Personally, I would never live in a neighborhood like this. Too boring and too snobby. But if people want ot buy into that, they have a certain right to maintain it.

 

[reetpleat]

Dang, afte reading the complaint of the neighbors, I definitely have a reaction if "What a bunch of uptight rich snobs. Screw em."

I am almost suprised that I would have posted what I have previously. But I guess it is true we tend to get more conservative as we get older and have more to lose. In the last few years, i have come to think that money isn't so bad, and rich people aren't evil. Also, I am a real estate agent so I think a lot more about neighborhoods and where people live.

I guess it is also true we can have multiple conflicting ideas in our head. I guess it is to be human. Amnd the sooner we recognize this fact instead of taking our thoughts and positions so seriously, the better off we will all be.

 

[Zemke Fan]

I believe you've missed the point...

These people in Marin County ONLY care about two things: (1) how the HH houses might affect their property values; and (2) how the houses might "detract" from "their" neighborhood.

"Look, Muffy! How did the Rothchilds EVER let those little bungalows into THEIR neighborhood."

Do you really believe that:
.

Maybe for every ten good families that move in, there is the one with the drug dealing grandson that moves in and breaks into all the neighbors homes.

Such an argument is as hard to swallow as the one quoted in the original story saying that the neighbors were worried about the "additional traffic" that would result from FOUR MORE houses.

I have a friend in THE MOST EXCLUSIVE of the Washington suburbs who was one of DOZENS of homeowners burgalized by three bored teeanagers from wealthy families. When the police caught up with them, the stolen goods were in the basement of one of their family mansions. The boys had been breaking into houses for months, bringing the loot home, and NONE of their parents noticed anything at all.

"How was YOUR day, Billy?"

"Fine, mom, fine. Can I go to the basement and count my booty before the fence comes over?"

 

[Zemke Fan]

I promise not to call you on it...

I guess it is also true we can have multiple conflicting ideas in our head.

So long as it stays in your head!

 

[reetpleat]

So long as it stays in your head!

True, true.

It is when we decide that one of our ideas or points of views is right, or god's will, or the only way to see a situation, and start imposing it on everyone else is when we get in trouble. When we fail to respect other [people's opinions and points of views, and recognize the inconsistancies and vulnerabilities of our own, we get into trouble.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Please do try to keep in mind that "the poor" aren't a monolithic group that exist to be generalized and kept in their place by those who've made their piles. In every class of people you'll find good and bad, quiet law-abiding citizens and drunken, drug-using louts -- the ultimate quality of a person's character has, as far as I've experienced in my own life, absolutely zero to do with the size of their bank account or the neighborhood where they live.

I've lived in "poor neighborhoods" most of my life. And it never hurt me any.