Mexican Expedition circa 1916 or my version of the Lounge

[deanglen]

Check it out. Nice variety. Which is your favorite? Found on the net. Maybe you could suggest a caption for this picture.

dean

 

[Bogie]

Wow, what a great photograph Deanglen!

The variety between hats in that picture is astonishing. I'm particularly fond of the one that fellow is wearing on the upper far left next to the Sombero, where do you find these pictures?

 

[deanglen]

Wow, what a great photograph Deanglen!

The variety between hats in that picture is astonishing. I'm particularly fond of the one that fellow is wearing on the upper far left next to the Sombero, where do you find these pictures?

Google, e-bay, different sites. I troll regularly for them.

dean

 

[RBH]

Cool photo,Dean. I love your 'finds'.
Keep up the good work!

 

[Jerekson]

Top row, second from the left...

 

[deanglen]

Top row, second from the left...

Bingo!

dean

 

[Martinis at 8]

Do you have any background on the men in the photo?

What's up with that dog? lol

 

[deanglen]

Do you have any background on the men in the photo?

What's up with that dog? lol

Sorry. Nothing available from it's original location. The dog? No idea. Maybe it's sleeping.lol Actually, I'm not sure it's from the Pancho Villa expedition, given the fact that so many of the campaign hats are NOT Montana peaks, but Frontier/Span-Am war Fore and Aft creased. Might just be some border area contact around the early 1910s. I really don't know. The Khaki Field Blouses put it around 1902 at least, I think, but others are better at this dating thing than me.


dean

 

[Martinis at 8]

Sorry. Nothing available from it's original location. The dog? No idea. Maybe it's sleeping.lol Actually, I'm not sure it's from the Pancho Villa expedition, given the fact that so many of the campaign hats are NOT Montana peaks, but Frontier/Span-Am war Fore and Aft creased. Might just be some border area contact around the early 1910s. I really don't know. The Khaki Field Blouses put it around 1902 at least, I think, but others are better at this dating thing than me.


dean

1902 would put it in the chase for Pancho Villa time frame. Pancho got away, eventually shot in the back by someone years later.

Photo looks like there might be a translator or two in the group. The dog looks like he's living a good life

M8

 

[Pat_H]

1902 would put it in the chase for Pancho Villa time frame. Pancho got away, eventually shot in the back by someone years later.

Photo looks like there might be a translator or two in the group. The dog looks like he's living a good life

M8

The M1902 remained in use as late as the 1916 expedition. You tend to see it very early on, and I suspect in use by federalized National Guardsmen. Shortly after Federalization, the hats all seem to be M1911 hats.

This particular photo either appears somewhere on the TMH forum, or is linked in there, but I can't recall the details on it. It'd be post 1911, but probably not any later than 1916.

FWIW, there's a huge number of Punitive Expedition photos up on the TMH forum, and a large number of links to other photos there as well.

 

[deanglen]

The M1902 remained in use as late as the 1916 expedition. You tend to see it very early on, and I suspect in use by federalized National Guardsmen. Shortly after Federalization, the hats all seem to be M1911 hats.

This particular photo either appears somewhere on the TMH forum, or is linked in there, but I can't recall the details on it. It'd be post 1911, but probably not any later than 1916.

FWIW, there's a huge number of Punitive Expedition photos up on the TMH forum, and a large number of links to other photos there as well.

Pat, you meant "SMH", right? Because that is where I found the references you posted. Same picture, for sure, and better view of the hats!

dean

 

[Uncle Vern]

Martinis at 8--The Mexican Revolution did not begin until 1910, and Villa didn't raid Columbus, New Mexico until 1916, so 1902 is an inaccurate date for Mexican border operations.
Pancho Villa wasn't shot in the back by "some guy," he was assassinated while returning to his his ranch in his auto by a group of professional killers who drilled him full of lead from various angles, killing him instantly, probably supporters of Calles. His assassination took place in Parral, Chihuahua. Villa had many enemies. Unless historians discover new information, the actual circumstances of his death will remain a mystery.
For those of you who are interested in Villa, the Mexican Revolution and Villa's Columbus raid, read the recent book "The General and the Jaguar," by Eileen Welsome. While the book deals with Villa's life and many other topics related to the revolution, it specifically addresses the Columbus raid and the intimate recollections of the town's survivors. It's an excellent, well-researched book.

 

[Pat_H]

Martinis at 8--The Mexican Revolution did not begin until 1910, and Villa didn't raid Columbus, New Mexico until 1916, so 1902 is an inaccurate date for Mexican border operations.
Pancho Villa wasn't shot in the back by "some guy," he was assassinated while returning to his his ranch in his auto by a group of professional killers who drilled him full of lead from various angles, killing him instantly, probably supporters of Calles. His assassination took place in Parral, Chihuahua. Villa had many enemies. Unless historians discover new information, the actual circumstances of his death will remain a mystery.
For those of you who are interested in Villa, the Mexican Revolution and Villa's Columbus raid, read the recent book "The General and the Jaguar," by Eileen Welsome. While the book deals with Villa's life and many other topics related to the revolution, it specifically addresses the Columbus raid and the intimate recollections of the town's survivors. It's an excellent, well-researched book.

Another good book is "Chasing Villa" by Tompkins, an officer involved in the P.E. It also has a good first hand description of the Columbus raid, from the U.S. Army defenders prospective, as well as a good description of events leading up to it, and following it.

 

[DanielJones]

Maybe you could suggest a caption for this picture.

dean

Circa 1916;
" The commitee,still hung over from the fiesta the night before, is still trying to figure out if it was the crate of hot peppers that killed the dog. Private Johanson (front row, right) is exploring all possabilities."

Too good to pass that up.lol

Cheers!

Dan

 

[deanglen]

:eusa_clap Excellent caption DJ!lol lol lol :eusa_clap

dean

 

[RBH]

What's up with that dog? lol

Hey, its the F?©d?©rale Dog Lounge isnt it ? lol

 

[Prairie Shade]

Dammit Deanglen

Your photos are amazing. Keep at it, I always enjoy your postings. I'm a campaign hat collector also. I think the American Army needs to get away from berets and ball caps. I believe that the Cav Hat gives us a little distinction. More is needed.

 

[deanglen]

Hey, its the F?©d?©rale Dog Lounge isnt it ? lol

Si, Amiego. (I don't speak, or write, Spanish.) Your joke, she's good, no?!lol lol lol Thanks, R.

dean

 

[deanglen]

Your photos are amazing. Keep at it, I always enjoy your postings. I'm a campaign hat collector also. I think the American Army needs to get away from berets and ball caps. I believe that the Cav Hat gives us a little distinction. More is needed.

Thanks Prairie! Post some shots of your hats, if you feel like it. I seriously could not agree with you more about what a return to traditional headgear for our troops would mean for morale. But maybe they wouldn't agree. I just think this is an example of some strength and honor:

BUT I KNOW I'M OLD FASHIONED AND DREAMING. A dream our allies, too, could use.

dean

 

[Prairie Shade]

Old Guard

I think that the Army of a Nation should somehow project the spirit of that nation and its unique contribution to the world. In WWI the French referred to our troops as the men with the cowboy hat (or something like that). Today, we look like every other European nation with the Beret. Its not American and its not our tradition. The ANZACS retained the felt hat for years much to their credit. We need to go back to our roots and traditions. I wear my Cav hat with pride from time to time. The last visage of what was really American Military Tradition. BRING IT BACK.