m 43 field caps

[Maguire]

I had picked up one of those black panzer numbers from an ebay store (I think they're in Hong Kong or Singapore) back this last winter. No bad comments but plenty of compliments. It looked good and really kept the noggin warm. Thanks to BT and his Adventure Wear photos for the Alpine Hiking outfit for that one.

Cheers!

Dan

Well Dr Jones it appears we both got it from the same source.

 

[Edward]

Regardless of history, a good looking and practical cap. It is a shame that some items of clothing get weighed down by baggage. Yet it happens. The swastika is an extremely ancient symbol, usually connected with the spirit of the sun, found in places as diverse as India and in N. America. The Hopi still use it. But it is now so imbued in the common imagination with the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis that I doubt it can ever be rehabilitated. Don't know if this hat can escape that fate...but maybe it has a decent chance if folks can see it in other contexts.

Due, I am sure, in no small part to growing up in Northern Ireland at the height of the unrest there, I am endlessly fascinated by the power of symbolism, be it the Swastika, the Union Flag, the Irvin Jacket, the A2, the Stars & Stripes, the Southern battle flag, or whatever it may be. I do agree with you on the matter of the Swastika, at least in Western Europe and the US.... I'm just back from a couple of weeks in China where I saw endless Buddhas with swastikas emblazoned on them; I also have a hazy memory about an article in Wired about ten years ago which discussed a bizarre Korean (I think) trend to wear Nazi uniforms (specifically Nazi as opposed to war era Wehrmacht)- the top rock group in the country at the time were wearing the black Hitler-SS uniforms as stage costumes, and to folks there is was simply "a cool look" without the inevitable connotations of evil they would have over here.

Personally, I like the M-43 cap and would have no problem wearing one, though naturally I too would shy away from Third Reich era emblems being emblazoned on it. Alas I don't think they work for me: I have a couple of what have been termed 'Castro caps' which certainly have been useful in warmer weather when the need arises for a beater hat, but what appeals to me about those is the stubby brim: the main reason I don't think I ever looked good in a ballcap is that a peak longer than 2" looks all wrong on me (yet oddly enough I love a wide brim in a fedora). Definitely prctical hats that deserve to be revived, though, and I would certainly look into one if ever I was gonig to be spending any time on the slopes (one of those, and a nice repro of the Luftwaffe answer to the Irvin).

 

[BellyTank]

I wasn't aware of Korea's fetish but Argentina has been fond of the Swastika since some time around the '40s.

B
T

 

[David Conwill]

I'll bet the Korean bands wouldn't be nearly so popular if they were wearing WWII-vintage Japanese uniforms.

-Dave

 

[Edward]

No doubt, David!

I wasn't aware of Korea's fetish but Argentina has been fond of the Swastika since some time around the '40s.

lol

 

[BellyTank]

No, seriously...

I have an Argentinian friend who tells me the Sawatika and fake Nazi militaria is very popular with kids and grown-ups alike. Nazi flavoured souvenir trash.
They seem quite proud of their mid-20th century German immigrants.

I also met a guy from Ecuador, by the name of Rommel.
I summoned up the courage to question him on his name-
he told me his parents thought it was a great name, then told me
he knew another guy from Ecuador called Hitler.


B
T

 

[Edward]

I have an Argentinian friend who tells me the Sawatika and fake Nazi militaria is very popular with kids and grown-ups alike. Nazi flavoured souvenir trash.
They seem quite proud of their mid-20th century German immigrants.

I also met a guy from Ecuador, by the name of Rommel.
I summoned up the courage to question him on his name-
he told me his parents thought it was a great name, then told me
he knew another guy from Ecuador called Hitler.


B
T

Oh, my. That's.... surreal. I did notice a lot of kids in China wearing Stahlheim (sp?) shaped helmets while on their mopeds / motorcycles - the fibreglass, novelty type that wouldn't pass muster over here, but in China where there are apparently no helmet laws (the number of folks who don't bother at all is astounding, same with seatbelts - not least because of the way they tend to drive over there!!), they do just fine. Only saw one of them with regalia on it, though - that an SS Totenkapf, if memory serves. There too, even moreso than in Korea, I suspect that Japanese equivalents would be a whole nother can o'worms!

 

[David Conwill]

The Stahlheim has a bit of a history in China, actually, since the Nationalists used German advisors in the 1920s. I've seen pictures of Nationalist troops in the '30s wearing the coal scuttle helmet and carrying the famous Broomhandle Mauser (I believe the Chinese version was locally produced in .45 ACP for quite a while, actually).

-Dave

 

[rjbaal]

Hungarian Army WWI

This is some unknown distant relative.
Does anyone speak Hungarian? Please translate the writing on the pic.
The style cap surely predates WWI Germany

Thanks

 

[rjbaal]

That should say WWII Germany

 

[Maguire]

Hungary had their own distinctive caps for both wars.

Argentina has a long history with regards to all that, remember plenty of Germans, Croatians, etc, fled to Argentina after the war and Peron's government had plenty of corporatist influence.

 

[Edward]

The Stahlheim has a bit of a history in China, actually, since the Nationalists used German advisors in the 1920s. I've seen pictures of Nationalist troops in the '30s wearing the coal scuttle helmet and carrying the famous Broomhandle Mauser (I believe the Chinese version was locally produced in .45 ACP for quite a while, actually).

-Dave

Interesting, that I did not know. By the 30s did they still have connections with Germany, or did those disappear with the Weimar Republic? I wodner was there a crossover of Chinese Nationalists wearing the Stahlheim while being supported by the American Volunteers, at the same time as Franco's fascists were being issued with stahlheims? Course, the Stahlheim long predates Hitler, but is another casualty of being associated with him nowadays.

 

[David Conwill]

Interesting, that I did not know. By the 30s did they still have connections with Germany, or did those disappear with the Weimar Republic? I wodner was there a crossover of Chinese Nationalists wearing the Stahlheim while being supported by the American Volunteers, at the same time as Franco's fascists were being issued with stahlheims? Course, the Stahlheim long predates Hitler, but is another casualty of being associated with him nowadays.

Military history was a passion of my youth, so I haven't really thought about it in a while and all of my resources at my parents. As I recall it the advisors were simply individuals who had been in the Imperial German Army and had left after the war to continue pursuing military careers, so there wasn't any political link between the state of Germany and the KMT that I'm aware of - though the Generalissimo wasn't exactly a staunch democrat. I rather suspect that the equipping of the Nationalist Army with coal scuttle helmets, Mauser rifles and Mauser pistols was more a function of who was selling in the '20s and '30s coupled with their German advisors preferences for that equipment they were familiar with.

Furthermore, I would imagine that lots of surplus German equipment was on the market as part of the pacification and reparation programs. Also, the military industries like Mauser and Krupp steel would have to seek markets elsewhere during the era before German rearmament.

-Dave

 

[Maguire]

Chiang Kai-shek's son Chian Wei-kuowas in the Wehrmacht actually--

Apparently he participated in the Auschluss.

 

[BellyTank]

This is some unknown distant relative.
Does anyone speak Hungarian? Please translate the writing on the pic.
The style cap surely predates WWI(2) Germany

Thanks

Listen up.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire was one of oldest in Europe. Since it ceased to exist at the end of WW1 it is largely unknown and misunderstood today. The Austro Hungarian Army were not step children to the up-start Germans. Indeed, it was the KuK that were the old military masters. The dual Kingdom had a hugely diverse population of over 53 million people and stretched from central Europe to Eastern Europe to the edges of the Middle East.

Like many of the Armies of Europe the KuK started the war in glamorous uniforms reflecting more of the Napoleonic Age than the Age of Modern Warfare. The Austrians learned quickly. By the end of the first year of the war the KuK were dressed in some of the most practical and useful uniforms of the day- from the completely modern field cap to the modern tunic

See here!

http://www.schipperfabrik.com/ah_uniforms.html

Scroll down and see all the pretty caps. The one in the old photo, above, is an Officer version, which is stiffened- the soldiers versions are soft, with a cloth, or leather bill, as seen on the Schipperfabrik web site.

This cap is widely recognised as the one that started the whole "Ski cap" thing.
Although it could be argued that the style came from civilian Winter Sports headwear- I don't think so(that WOULD just be arguing), not that early on BUT WW2 German military clothing was heavily influenced by pre-war German/Austrian, etc., Winter Sport clothing, the caps of which, were surely influenced by the WW2 era Austro-Hungarian Feldkappe. Look at the Black Panzer uniforms(and the Hitler Youth winter uniforms, for that matter)Exact copies of '30s Ski suits- even the black-ness is '30s Ski style. Got that?

Here...
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=6223&highlight=winter

Also any Sears, Wards, etc catalog from the '30s- you'll see...



I love these caps AH Felkappes. $39.95 worth of pure... Feldkappe.


Settle down.



B
T

 

[BellyTank]

Hungary had their own distinctive caps for both wars.

Argentina has a long history with regards to all that, remember plenty of Germans, Croatians, etc, fled to Argentina after the war and Peron's government had plenty of corporatist influence.

See above post...


B
T

 

[Orvil Newton]

Although military headgear often looks cool when worn as part of a uniform, I have never been able to bring myself to wear one as part of my civilian attire. It may be due to my fifteen years in the US Army (I joined up just as the stiff "Castro cap" was being phased out in favor of the ugly baseball type cap for wear with fatigues and got out, gratefully, before the adoption of the black beret.) I especially like the look of the kepi worn by the CSA during the Civil War and adopted by the US Army afterwards (Not the forage cap worn by the north during the war), the "Kepi Blanc" worn by the French LE and the USMC fatigue cover. I love the campaign hat with the Montana peak crown too. As a practical matter, it's hard to beat the US Vietnam era "Boonie" hat, the one issued to US Army troops, for outdoor activity like hiking or hunting.

But if the activity calls for a cap, I resort to the much maligned but all American baseball cap; either a New Era 59 fifty game cap (LA Dodgers) or my American Needle 1957 Brooklyn Dodgers repro. If you ever catch me wearing an adjustable cap and I don't have a paintbrush in my hand, just shoot me.

 

[Edward]

Furthermore, I would imagine that lots of surplus German equipment was on the market as part of the pacification and reparation programs. Also, the military industries like Mauser and Krupp steel would have to seek markets elsewhere during the era before German rearmament.

Makes sense.... there'd have been a lot ofv guns left over and no real market for anything new on the domestic front after the Versailles emasculation of the German military.