Ligne to the Inch? 11, 12, or 16?

[gtdean48]

I've seen a definition that has it at 1/11th of an inch but also seen hat websites that use 1/12th of an inch. Somebody replied here that it was 1/16th. I've always like 1/12th cause that was easy with 2 ligne = 1/6", 3 ligne = 1/4", 4 ligne = 1/3", 6 ligne = 1/2", 9 ligne = 3/4" & 12 ligne = 1". Is this another enigma like the X's in a Stetson hat?

 

[carter]

gtd, Could be.
I've always adhered to the 1/12 inch=1 ligne guideline. There is a discussion of ligne in this thread:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=35470&highlight=ligne

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks Carter, good read...

 

[zetwal]

Perhaps I'm dull but I thought that there wasn't really a direct and invariable connection between ligne and inches. I thought that ligne was the old French term used to refer to the the number of horizontal winding rows on the ribbon. Thus the translation from linge to ribbon width in inches is variable within the range you mention. I'll go read the other thread too -

 

[gtdean48]

...I thought that ligne was the old French term used to refer to the the number of horizontal winding rows on the ribbon. Thus the translation from linge to ribbon width in inches is variable within the range you mention...-

I thought that was "ply", like 2 ply on my Stetson 25 that I wore yesterday & 3 ply like somebody bought yesterday...[huh]

 

[Lone_Ranger]

That's interesting. I have always heard "Ligne" used in sizing metal buttons.


Waterbury Button Company.

http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/home.asp


(From their website)

Ligne Sizes Defined

20 Ligne = 1/2" dia. = 12.700 MM

25 Ligne = 5/8" dia. = 15.875 MM

30 Ligne = 3/4" dia. = 19.050 MM

35 Ligne = 7/8" dia. = 22.225 MM

40 Ligne = 1" dia. = 25.400 MM

45 Ligne = 1-1/8" dia. = 28.58 MM

 

[HATCO]

My ruler from sometime before. I think the 60's-70's...Not sure exactly....

I redrew the 1/8" dividers as they are worn and very faint...

I think it's not exactly right though as seen below

Measuring the distance between each multiple of 6 lignes for the whole ruler gives an average of .540"

 

[Brad Bowers]

I use the 1/11 measure, because the rolls of 2" ribbon I buy are marked 22 1/4 ligne, which rounds out to 11 lignes to the inch. I have no idea what's the historical definition of ligne.

Brad

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks Hatco & Brad. That ruler shows it to be 1/11 + with 1" being between 11 & 12 ligne. Guess that is why 2" is not exactly 22 ligne. 11 1/8 ligne = 1 inch. Interesting stuff.

 

[zetwal]

Yea! thanks for the ruler - pictures do speak louder than words -

 

[zetwal]

And I just looked at both sides of a ribbon and see that there aren't any visible horizontal rows at all. I don't know why I thought there were -

 

[mineral]

As usual, Wikipedia comes to the rescue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_units_of_measurement

You can find all the gory details above, but to summarize:

1 French inch (pouce) = 1.066 English inch
1 French inch = 12 French line (ligne)

so 1 ligne = 0.08881 English inch.

 

[Joshbru3]

Here's an ad from a 1915 Edition of the American Hatter



15 Lignes = 1 1/4 inches wide

18 Lignes = 1 1/2 inches wide

23 Lignes = 2 inches wide