Langlitz sizing Q

[high-maintenance]

Hello

I am about to pull a trigger on stock langlitz (cowhide)

I usually wear 44 in almost every jacket. Aero, Lewis leathers...

My best fitting jacket has following measurements

p2p 24
shoulder 20
sleeve length 25
and my chest circumference is 43.5 inches

I tried to search measurements of stock langlitz here in the forum but most of them were custom made ones.

If anyone here knows the measurements for size 44 stock Columbia or Cascade (including sleeve length please) please let me know in the thread.

or please give me general advice on columbia and cascade sizing. (I already own size 46 langlitz flight jacket and they are big for me)

Thank you very much

 

[Guppy]

Just ask them for the measurements of the jacket you're looking at, or give them your desired measurements and see what they have that's close.

 

[high-maintenance]

Just ask them for the measurements of the jacket you're looking at, or give them your desired measurements and see what they have that's close.

I have already done that. Just want to hear some user experience regarding sizing and fit.
It's over 1K so I want to be careful.

 

[Psant25]

@regius i think sold a stock 44 columbia in the Classifieds p2p is closer to 40-42. Measurements listed for reference

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/fs-langlitz-goatskin-columbia-44.101389/

 

[Psant25]

I have already done that. Just want to hear some user experience regarding sizing and fit.
It's over 1K so I want to be careful.

I would do just what you are doing. I did the custom route just giving them numbers and turned out with super wide shoulders and sleeves like 2-3 inches too long. I wish they would just post measurements and let people adjust like many other makers.

they make the mistake and if you end up with a remake or more you might get banned from future orders.

 

[high-maintenance]

@regius i think sold a stock 44 columbia in the Classifieds p2p is closer to 40-42. Measurements listed for reference

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/fs-langlitz-goatskin-columbia-44.101389/

Thank you! yeah p2p sound more like 40 or 42. Maybe I should order size 45? confusing... p2p 22.5 will definitely be small for me. (I though columbia was on the generous side?)

 

[high-maintenance]

I would do just what you are doing. I did the custom route just giving them numbers and turned out with super wide shoulders and sleeves like 2-3 inches too long. I wish they would just post measurements and let people adjust like many other makers.

they make the mistake and if you end up with a remake or more you might get banned from future orders.

Yes I prefer buying stock jackets with modification if needed.

 

[Psant25]

Thank you! yeah p2p sound more like 40 or 42. Maybe I should order size 45? confusing... p2p 22.5 will definitely be small for me. (I though columbia was on the generous side?)

Will they send you a stock jacket or make you up one and then let u return and make adjustments if needed on a new one?

 

[high-maintenance]

Will they send you a stock jacket or make you up one and then let u return and make adjustments if needed on a new one?

I am ordering a stock jacket (ready to go). I live abroad so returning is not a viable option for me. but I think they will let you return or make adjustments if you live in US.

 

[El Marro]

When I asked Langlitz about buying a stock jacket off the rack in 2017 they told me they only sold them to people who came to the store in person. I ended up going the custom route and like some others ended up with a jacket that didn’t fit well and had to be remade. I agree that it would’ve been very nice to just get something off the rack and it probably would have fit better as well.
As you mentioned in your post it is going to be very hard to get an accurate sense of their “stock” size since almost all of their work is custom. Indeed my two Langlitz jackets don’t even have a size tag on them anywhere.
Since you already own the flight jacket in 46 I would work with them beginning with those numbers to see what size they think you would be in a Columbia.

 

[high-maintenance]

When I asked Langlitz about buying a stock jacket off the rack in 2017 they told me they only sold them to people who came to the store in person. I ended up going the custom route and like some others ended up with a jacket that didn’t fit well and had to be remade. I agree that it would’ve been very nice to just get something off the rack and it probably would have fit better as well.
As you mentioned in your post it is going to be very hard to get an accurate sense of their “stock” size since almost all of their work is custom. Indeed my two Langlitz jackets don’t even have a size tag on them anywhere.
Since you already own the flight jacket in 46 I would work with them beginning with those numbers to see what size they think you would be in a Columbia.

I visited the shop when I bought my flight jacket and tried a few models. I guess that's why they let me. Current size 46 jacket I own is kinda roomy so I guess 44 or 45 would fit me well.

 

[ctdair]

I went the custom route and jacket fits perfect. Ordered one for the wife and fit was terrible. Cant believe that I either measured that bad or that their process was that far off. I believe a shipping mix-up occurred. The wife was displeased and we went with a refund and not a remake. During my ordering process I was very adamant that I didn't want a loose fit. Most comfortable riding jacket I own. Uncomfortable if your just hanging out trying to look stylish.

 

[regius]

I think when it comes to makers like langlitz and Bates and even Vanson, these isolated, one dimensional dimensions are not very helpful (other than those one dimensional dimensions such as back length and hem width and sleeve length), pinching p2p and flattening shoulder is just not helpful, because a jacket wraps around a 3D body in those key areas (even the arm is a 3D object, well, obviously, but compared to back, which is more or less flat).

Unless some kind of measurement system is created to account for the "angles" of armpit and shoulder slope, a Langlitz that has the same numbers as an Aero would fit COMPLETELY different. Just to further illustrate the intricacy of pattern making, there is a concept called "sleeve ease" in tailoring, it's quite controversial but yet a basic concept. Sleeve east refers to the need/fact that the circumference of the body-end of the sleeve tube to be a bit longer than the circumference of the armhole on the torso, therefore it takes maneuvering and skill to fit the larger circle into a small circle. If the sleeve circle is too larger, the result is the Cinderella puff shoulder (a style of its own), characterised by many puckers/folds, because it is physically impossible to match a longer edge onto a short edge. HOWEVER, for leather jackets, this extra length is kept minimal or none (mostly there's a little about max 1").

The reason for the extract length is to create a dome-shape around the deltoids, because the human shoulder is not a flat cliff. Of course, a pattern can be created so that the shoulder width and slope and the armpit height can collectively accommodate the domed deltoid (to an extent, not if you a bodybuilder).

The above is just to illustrate the jacket is not a 2D object, and furthermore, even when the deltoid is accommodated, it still doesn't mean the jacket necessarily affords mobility, as typical to Aero's jackets, still can't lift the arms or lift forward. So other dimensions come to play which i'll skip here.

To me, both the Langlitz rack patterns and custom patterns are extremely accommodating, while the rack jackets are "more" accommodating, with massive bicep and rounded details that many find to be of poor fit (still love the Ronnie Coleman analogy). The point here is that your regular chest measurement per your other jackets may not be a meaningful reference. An Aero that measure 44" P2P is pretty much useless when buying a Langlitz, on an Aero pattern, if it's not sufficiently large on the P2p, you WILL have problem zipping up or breathing etc, but not so much on an Langlitz, the "magic" of the Langlitz is that the chest (fully zipped) can be like second skin (tight) and yet you can still play basketball or do Olympic weightlifting.

So, I think the ultimate way is to measure your true T shirt chest circumference, but given that they don't provide the over the phone service (maybe they'll do given you are from overseas, Scott and Bennie have tried to help me in this way), it could be a challenge. I guess the point I want to make is that you may find a Langlitz with a shorter P2p to be not an issue.

One last tip on buying rack, as I mentioned above, is the round big bicep, if you like the Euro look (Belstsaf, lewis), then you will probably hate the massive ballooon bicep on their rack jackets.

 

[high-maintenance]

I think when it comes to makers like langlitz and Bates and even Vanson, these isolated, one dimensional dimensions are not very helpful (other than those one dimensional dimensions such as back length and hem width and sleeve length), pinching p2p and flattening shoulder is just not helpful, because a jacket wraps around a 3D body in those key areas (even the arm is a 3D object, well, obviously, but compared to back, which is more or less flat).

Unless some kind of measurement system is created to account for the "angles" of armpit and shoulder slope, a Langlitz that has the same numbers as an Aero would fit COMPLETELY different. Just to further illustrate the intricacy of pattern making, there is a concept called "sleeve ease" in tailoring, it's quite controversial but yet a basic concept. Sleeve east refers to the need/fact that the circumference of the body-end of the sleeve tube to be a bit longer than the circumference of the armhole on the torso, therefore it takes maneuvering and skill to fit the larger circle into a small circle. If the sleeve circle is too larger, the result is the Cinderella puff shoulder (a style of its own), characterised by many puckers/folds, because it is physically impossible to match a longer edge onto a short edge. HOWEVER, for leather jackets, this extra length is kept minimal or none (mostly there's a little about max 1").

The reason for the extract length is to create a dome-shape around the deltoids, because the human shoulder is not a flat cliff. Of course, a pattern can be created so that the shoulder width and slope and the armpit height can collectively accommodate the domed deltoid (to an extent, not if you a bodybuilder).

The above is just to illustrate the jacket is not a 2D object, and furthermore, even when the deltoid is accommodated, it still doesn't mean the jacket necessarily affords mobility, as typical to Aero's jackets, still can't lift the arms or lift forward. So other dimensions come to play which i'll skip here.

To me, both the Langlitz rack patterns and custom patterns are extremely accommodating, while the rack jackets are "more" accommodating, with massive bicep and rounded details that many find to be of poor fit (still love the Ronnie Coleman analogy). The point here is that your regular chest measurement per your other jackets may not be a meaningful reference. An Aero that measure 44" P2P is pretty much useless when buying a Langlitz, on an Aero pattern, if it's not sufficiently large on the P2p, you WILL have problem zipping up or breathing etc, but not so much on an Langlitz, the "magic" of the Langlitz is that the chest (fully zipped) can be like second skin (tight) and yet you can still play basketball or do Olympic weightlifting.

So, I think the ultimate way is to measure your true T shirt chest circumference, but given that they don't provide the over the phone service (maybe they'll do given you are from overseas, Scott and Bennie have tried to help me in this way), it could be a challenge. I guess the point I want to make is that you may find a Langlitz with a shorter P2p to be not an issue.

One last tip on buying rack, as I mentioned above, is the round big bicep, if you like the Euro look (Belstsaf, lewis), then you will probably hate the massive ballooon bicep on their rack jackets.

I appreciate your detailed answer.
Decided to go for size 44 Columbia. I love Ronnie Coleman and his suit style so will have no problem with it.
Thank you again!

 

[high-maintenance]

I went the custom route and jacket fits perfect. Ordered one for the wife and fit was terrible. Cant believe that I either measured that bad or that their process was that far off. I believe a shipping mix-up occurred. The wife was displeased and we went with a refund and not a remake. During my ordering process I was very adamant that I didn't want a loose fit. Most comfortable riding jacket I own. Uncomfortable if your just hanging out trying to look stylish.

Sorry it didn't work out well for your wife but at least you got yours perfect!