Is this a legitimate B-15?

[USAAFAcePilot]

http://www.aviationsupermart.com/st...lica-Issue-Jacket-Imported-.html?feed=froogle

Is it true to the original USAAF B-15 in WWII? I mean, the price is just too good! It even has a USAAF embroidered patch.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Not really. It looks to be a mixture of the various editions of the B-15. Below is an original B-15A. It has an offset Crown zipper, an alpaca lining and a brown mouton collar. Also, its shell is made of a fabric that is not as shiny as later editions of the B-15. The other photo is of a B-15D... the last of the B-15s. It's O2 tab is straight along the zipper and it isn't a WWII jacket...it was first issued at the end of the Korean War.

AF

 

[Edward]

I have seen the jacket in the OP for sale here in the UK for about GBP140 or so - less than half the price of the equivalent Eastman. I didn't care much for its overall look; it just had too 'modern' a vibe to my eye, probably the effect of the combination of features and the one I saw was very shiny. Looked a bit like somebody had added a few older-style features to a contemporary jacket, if you see what I mean. Purely as a garment, the quality wasn't bad, but even to my untrained eye it as clearly lacking something in the accuracy stakes if an accurate repro is what you were after.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Cockpit doesn't make accurate repros of anything. They make generic jackets that suggest specific military styles to folks who have only vague ideas what the originals were like.

Nothing wrong with that, they're functional and look good. They're nice garments, sometimes (like this B-15) at a good price point. They're just not accurate repros if that matters to you.

Schott and Alpha (and Cooper, when they were around) do the same thing: these companies made one or two jacket styles for military contracts at some point in time, which lends them an air of legitimacy. But the vast majority of their products are for the general public - who don't really know/care about proper reproductions.

If you just want a pretty cool looking, warm military styled jacket, this is fine. But if you want a good B-15 repro, you have to look to more specialist outfits...

 

[Phantomfixer]

B-15D modified

Hey Atticus

Was there a jacket called the B-15D modified? It was basically the first version of the MA-1.
As far as The Cockpit is concerned.... I have been to their store front and hand selected a nice A-2. As far as the general public on line store, I agree that their jackets are of the generic quality level. Having said that... while at the store in NYCity they had several examples of horsehide A-2s that where outstanding and I mean outstanding. The hides were thick and the pattern was a military cut. Very nice pocket flaps. The stiching on the epaulettes were more in line with a Perry pattern. Box stitch coat hanger etc. very nice. But again these where not their general production runs. I think they have the cabapility to produce great jackets but choose the mass production route. BTW I have no ties with The Cockpit.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Yes, there was a B-15D Mod and a B-15C Mod. Both were existing jackets that were reworked by the Air Force to accommodate the use of hard helmets in the cockpit. When you see a D or C Mod, it will have its black nomemclature tag partially covered by another white tag specifing the modifaction. Looks like this:

In 1954 (and this date is still being debated on VLJ) the Air Force essentially renamed the B-15D Mod as the MA-1. Other than the tag, it is almost impossible to tell the difference between a first edition MA-1 and a B-15D Mod.

By the way, I've always thought this is the genesis of the confusion as to whether there was ever an issued blue MA-1. In my opinion, there wasn't. At least I've never seen one. There was, however, the B-15C Mod, which looks like a blue MA-1...at least at a distance...to a novice.

AF

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

USAAF WWII B-15s had faux mouton collars, right?

Also, isn't the AAF patch on the wrong side?

 

[Atticus Finch]

USAAF WWII B-15s had faux mouton collars, right?

Also, isn't the AAF patch on the wrong side?

I think WWII jackets had mouton collars and the left sleeve is where the roundel belongs...but it wasn't a patch...it was a decal or transfer.

AF

 

[Phantomfixer]

That is the first modified tag that I have seen. The only blue AF jackets that I knew of where the L2A and the B-15C modified. That whole 50s thing. I still saw blue arctic gear turn up in cold weather kit bags here at DAFB. All in new condition. Anytime I saw them I swapped them out with local army navy surplus. Most had the old winged star.

 

[Atticus Finch]

The blue jackets were:

L-2A
B-15C / B-15C Mod
N-2A
N-3A

All were produced in the short time period between 1948ish and 1952ish.

One of my favorite photos: Two B-15Cs and an N-2A on a cold Korean evening.

AF

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

Does anybody have any pictures of WWII USAAF B-15 jackets? (preferably worn with crusher caps)

Thanks!

 

[deanglen]

dean

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

THANKS!!

 

[USAAFAcePilot]

Any good, faithful, affordable USAAF WWII B-15s out there (with the AAF patch)?

 

[Edward]

I think you're into the big money for the better ones.... they're now about GBP350 from Eastman. Aero did do one that was much cheaper (though the consensus among hardcore jacket people seemed to be that it was somewhat less accurate than the Eastman, and the cloth wasn't quite as good). Never handled either, myself.

Buzz Rickson also do a great B15, IMO, though they're harder to find, at least here in the UK. Eastman are the official importer over here, and as one might expect they seem only to offer Buzz models of jackets that they don't do themselves. I'm always keeping an eye out on the 'Bay for a repro B15 or B15A. I did really fancy a B-10, though TBH I'm increasingly favouring its successor as a little better suited to civilian wear (if ever I was to get into re-enacting, it won't be as a USAAF pilot, I can tell you.... I'm already much too old at 35, and being bald I look it too). I definitely would like a Buzz B15-C with the original mouton collar spec. I may order one from Eastman for next Autumn, we'll see how the funds go this year. I think they have a great rock and roll look, and then there's that photo of Marylin looking v cool in one... (yeah, I just need the girl to borrow it.... though only on an occasional basis, too pricey a jacket to lose to a woman!!).

Yes, there was a B-15D Mod and a B-15C Mod. Both were existing jackets that were reworked by the Air Force to accommodate the use of hard helmets in the cockpit.

What was the detail of that, exactly? Was it that the mouton got in the way of the helmet, or simply that it wasn't necessary for warmth any longer after the arrival of the hard helmet?

I did read somewhere, on a site selling jackets, that the story was the USAF got worried about the mouton collars being too flammable and so changed them out for the knits on that basis, but that seemed rather suspect at best to me.

AF

Jinkies, is that a B2 cap still in use in Korea? That guy must have been quite the vet by then, no? (Still most likely only in his early thirties, though....).