In search of a tough as nails shearling jacket, advice needed.

[JLStorm]

Hello all, I have read this board for a about 18 months, but have not ever posted because while I value quality, I have no interest in historical accuracy and I was not sure how my posts would fare in this environment.

However, I am in search of a shearling jacket and I figured this was the best place for advice. The following is what I need:

• Hide: tough hide, the kind of toughness that thorn bushes cry in fear of. The kind of hide that can withstand years of abuse and scratches from various materials will only add character, but not destroy the leather. I will sacrifice comfort of wear for durability of a thicker less supple hide.
  
• Weight: the kind of weight that would make me sprain my wrist upon trying to lift it. Very very heavy (I like heavy coats).
  
• Insulation: shearling, the same dark color as used in the Irvin's so that it doesnt show dirt or stains as easily as the lighter colors. I would like the heavy weight long shearling.
  
• Other: I would like the cuffs of sleeves to NOT have any shearling showing in order to keep the jacket easier to spot clean as the shearling on the end of cuffs seems to get stained quickly.
  
• Uses: this jacket will be traveling all over the world, it will be worn hard in temperatures from +25 to -20 fahrenheit where it will brush up against steel at times and will possibly get stuck and prodded by various materials while I am walking outside in the dead of night without much light. It will be placed on the ground in certain occasions and on others it will be balled up. So basically, it will live a life of torture testing.

Hear is my major issue. I wear a size 48 - 52 depending on the cut of the jacket. Generally in USA milspec sizes I wear a 50 or a 52 if I want to layer. I have a big chest, big shoulders, and wide but short arms, so I usually only wear jackets that have elastic type cuffs to keep the sleeves from hanging down to far. So, I either need someone who will custom cut the sleeve length, or a jacket style that allows for someone with a size of 48-52 with only approximately a 33" sleeve measurement to not look like Im wearing a jacket 3 sizes to big. Either way I know I will have extra room in the chest and stomach area, and that is ok, as long as I can function without the sleeves falling down past my hands.

I currently have a Schott 184SM which I love and while the leather feels a little too light and supple to hold up to my lifestyle, it seems to be able to stand up ok so far. However it is simply just not warm enough for the coldest of weather and I dont think the hide is tough enough to handle the rough days.

I would very much like to keep the cost of this jacket under $800.00 US and can asbolutely not go above $1000.00, which means that I cant have someone do much, if any custom work. I think the style I am looking for is something of a cross between an ANJ-4 and an Irivin. So far the style of the jaket that comes closest to what I imagine would work for me is this, but I know nothing about the company that makes it, or what its made from.

I have looked at Aero, Eastman, LW, etc. but they all seem to pride themselves on historical reproduction first and foremost and as mentioned, I really dont care about historical factors, I only care about my needs, durability, quality, and the company's customer service and longevity. I have also looked at Schott, but I dont believe that they would be able to fulfill me requirements for this particular jacket

Any advice would be sincerely appreciated...sorry for the long post!

 

[John Lever]

If you want a really tough sheepskin then there is only one jacket maker that comes close. Lost Worlds New York make a very very heavy solid B3 and Anj4. I have both and they are truly as tough as a blacksmiths nail. They use skins from mature sheep so the actual leather part of the hide is very thick. It is then specially tanned to make it even tougher.
Here's my B3 standing up by itself

form the back

side view

 

[Edward]

The jacket in the photo in the OP is made by the English company Cirrus, and it is their "B3 Gunners Jacket" model. Comes in at GBP £479 plus shipping.

"Has thick Steerhide on the sleeves for extra protection.
There are no zips on the sleeves and there is no sheepskin showing at cuffs.
Both the side belts at the bottom of the jacket are fitted with adjusters and the collar belt with solid brass buckles.
The original normally had one pocket (as illustrated) but we can supply a two pocket version for the small premium of £7.50.
Available in Mustang (as worn by the girl), Hurricane (as worn by the man) or Spitfire"


http://www.flyingjacket.com/gunners_jacket_b3.htm

Mustang, Hurricane and Spitfire are all types of leather / finish / colour.

I understand that you're after quality as opposed to historical accuracy. I've never held a Cirrus myself, but it seems from others' experience that they are very close to what you want - not by any means historically accurate (this model appears to be based on an Irvin with several styling details from the US B3 added), but certainly quality.

One thing I would say is that a sheepskin shearling jacket, while durable, will never be as hardy as a horsehide jacket... but it *will* far exceed that in warmth. The leather elbow pads etc on the likes of this Cirrus model will also help. It might be worth you checking out a B2 repro, if you can find one... forum member Rufus has a beautiful B2 that if memory serves was produced by Buzz Rickson, I know Lost Worlds also make them. Those are tough as nails for sure.

 

[JLStorm]

Thanks to both of your for your suggestions this far. Unfortunately, LW is just out of my price range and while the B-2 does look like an amazing jacket, I dont know if it would be quite warm enough for me? Additionally, it looks very similar to my Schott 184SM in features, although it would probably be more durable and warm, I dont know if it would be twice as durable and twice as warm, and for twice the price, Id want just that.

I think shearling is the way to go for warmth as I do get cold very easily no matter how long I seem to stay in cold environments. Im the first to start shivering and need extra warmth for some reason. As mentioned, I am a little weary about shearlings durability and the Cirrus jacket is quite expensive compared to say a flightjacket.com jacket, but Cirrus doesnt seem to have a great reputation on this board. Of course, with flightjacket.com charging a $100.00 premium for jackets over a size 46, they do start to even out.

Im also looking into whether or not Schott can custom make me a shearling liner and collar for my 184SM, but Im doubtful that they will and I also have my doubts that the 184SM can really stand up to my time at work, although Schott swears that it can...

 

[Eyemo]

I've got a Real McCoy B3, which is a very nice jacket..But I don't know if they are still in business..

 

[John Lever]

I've got a Real McCoy B3, which is a very nice jacket..But I don't know if they are still in business..

You must be joking surely ?
RMNZ still make some of the best military repro's available. Their Few range is very comprehensive and constantly changes.

 

[Eyemo]

You must be joking surely ?
RMNZ still make some of the best military repro's available. Their Few range is very comprehensive and constantly changes.

Thanks for the update... Mine was from Japan, I guess they aren't still in busines??

 

[John Lever]

Thanks for the update... Mine was from Japan, I guess they aren't still in busines??

RMJ is still going

http://www.realmccoys.co.jp/catalog/default3.php?cPath=21
Confused yet ?
If you are looking for a warm non-authentic [ there less expensive] jacket then a second hand Aviation Leathercraft fits the bill. They come up all the time and are very warm.

 

[davyjones007]

At Flightjacket.com they have a M-444 you might consider or their ANJ-4. Both are under 800.00 USD and they can do custom work for you sleeve length. Just another option for you to look into.

 

[Rufus]

Welcome JLS!

Just to bear in mind, if you're really going out in the temperatures you've mentioned, you might find a shearling a bit of a struggle.

You'll need multiple layers, and this will restrict you're movement with such a thick, heavy coat. Obviously you'll lose extra heat from exertion.

You'd be far better off with a modern LIGHT material jacket, as used by walkers (Hikers), and climbers. The modern jackets are light for a reason, so you can concentrate on the task at hand, not fighting with your gear.

Most of these shearlings were designed for pilots, whom ere hopefully sitting down for most of their journeys. Most modern users do nothing more taxing than reaching for their car's cigarette lighter.

having owned a number of Irvins and gone for walks in them, you DO notice the weight after a while, and you do have restricted movement.

I'm not trying to put you off, just would hate you to spend so much money, and struggle!

Good luck,
Rufus

 

[JLStorm]

Welcome JLS!

Just to bear in mind, if you're really going out in the temperatures you've mentioned, you might find a shearling a bit of a struggle.

You'll need multiple layers, and this will restrict you're movement with such a thick, heavy coat. Obviously you'll lose extra heat from exertion.

You'd be far better off with a modern LIGHT material jacket, as used by walkers (Hikers), and climbers. The modern jackets are light for a reason, so you can concentrate on the task at hand, not fighting with your gear.

Most of these shearlings were designed for pilots, whom ere hopefully sitting down for most of their journeys. Most modern users do nothing more taxing than reaching for their car's cigarette lighter.

having owned a number of Irvins and gone for walks in them, you DO notice the weight after a while, and you do have restricted movement.

I'm not trying to put you off, just would hate you to spend so much money, and struggle!

Good luck,
Rufus

Thanks for the warning, I actually have a bit of experience with both. I have a very cheap (but warm) imitation b3 I purchased new for about $300.00 4 years ago which is starting to fall a part, but is a very heay coat weighing about 6-7 pounds. I dont mind the weight at all, but yes if Im very physically active it can be a challange, however most of the time I dont find that its an issue as Im not trudging miles through the snow, its more like short bursts of energy, sometimes its simply walking in hazardous (to a jacket or skin) areas rather than hiking, running, etc. For the more physically demanding work I have what I think is a military issue N3b extreme cold weather jacket thats supposedly rated to -40f. I think it says something like spaiwalk and sons on the tag??? I picked it up new through a friend while I was doing some contracting work for the defense department at a very, very reasonable price...apparently they were moving to a newer jacket style of some sort that he was issued and these N3Bs were frowned upon for some reason. Anyway, the N3B is warmer than my shearling or any other jacket I have, I can sweat in it standing still in temperatures below +10f, but it lacks the weight and feel that I love.

 

[JLStorm]

At Flightjacket.com they have a M-444 you might consider or their ANJ-4. Both are under 800.00 USD and they can do custom work for you sleeve length. Just another option for you to look into.

I really like their ANJ-4, but the shearling is white and since I wear between a size 50 and 52 milspec. their pricing would go up quite a bit. I have also heard both good and bad things about them, so Im a bit weary of the quality.

 

[ethanedwards]

Cheek

Most modern users do nothing more taxing than reaching for their car's cigarette lighter.

Rufus[/QUOTE]

How dare you sir! Occasionally I also have to adjust the volume on the stereo
and even on occasion, turn down the heating!

A good point, well made Ruf.

 

[davyjones007]

I have two of their jackets. One is a goat A-2 and the other a Russet HH A-2 and both are great jackets if you are not a stickler for authenticity. But you know you should always shop around and try not to settle; get what you want and not what others want you to get.

 

[Edward]

Thanks to both of your for your suggestions this far. Unfortunately, LW is just out of my price range and while the B-2 does look like an amazing jacket, I dont know if it would be quite warm enough for me? Additionally, it looks very similar to my Schott 184SM in features, although it would probably be more durable and warm, I dont know if it would be twice as durable and twice as warm, and for twice the price, Id want just that.

Ah, well.... the law of diminishing returns kicks in with all consumer goods as you go up in price!

I think shearling is the way to go for warmth as I do get cold very easily no matter how long I seem to stay in cold environments. Im the first to start shivering and need extra warmth for some reason. As mentioned, I am a little weary about shearlings durability and the Cirrus jacket is quite expensive compared to say a flightjacket.com jacket, but Cirrus doesnt seem to have a great reputation on this board. Of course, with flightjacket.com charging a $100.00 premium for jackets over a size 46, they do start to even out.

I can't comment on quality myself as I haven't feltg one, but to be fair folks who have round here have said they are great jackets, justl ike ALC. I think most of the complaints you'll find here are in relation to their not being the most accurate historically, which as you indicate is an issue for many of us, but not yourself.

Im also looking into whether or not Schott can custom make me a shearling liner and collar for my 184SM, but Im doubtful that they will and I also have my doubts that the 184SM can really stand up to my time at work, although Schott swears that it can...

That could be an option. I did for a while have a Schott-style modern civilian jacket that was a hybrid between G1 and A2 - you know the type. It had a zip in / zip out wool pile body liner for cold weather wear.... if you could get hold of a zip (or other fastening) to match hat your jacket has, that might work...

The other (likely cheaper) alternative would be to buy something like this:

It's a USAAF shearling vest, 1/4" deep pile. Would provide a lot of extra warmth under the jacket, or could be worn without it - might be a more flexible alternative than a new lining for your jacket?

The one pictured is the Eastman model - http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/eastmanleather/products/product-81127.stm - Currently £117.50, a little more expensive than a few months ago, but still much chepaer than the Aero equivalent (oddly enough - usually Eastman's stuff is a little more expensive than Aero. ).

 

[Naphtali]

Cirrus makes a steroid-enhance Irvin jacket they identify as 2 Plus 2 http://www.flyingjacket.com/2plus2.htm. I have personal correspondence with the company on a version customized to my needs -- longer body, pockets, sleeves similar to what you have in mind, et al. I am more than happy to share the information via PM/E-mail.

Hope this helps.

 

[Edward]

I'd love to see a 2 plus 2 in a calf-length - that'd probably be the warmest coat you'd ever encounter!

 

[FLATHEAD]

One option not yet mentioned is a jacket made from horsehide, with a
shearling lining.

Aero makes one, and can make just about any of their horsehide jackets
with a shearling lining.

With this option, you will get tough leather, abrasion resistance, warmth,
durability, and cuffs that will not get dirty fast. All at price that falls around
your $800.00 mark.

Here is one example of an Aero horsehide jacket with a shearling lining:

I am sure Eastwood, and other companies, like Todds Custom can make
one also.

Jim

 

[JLStorm]

That could be an option. I did for a while have a Schott-style modern civilian jacket that was a hybrid between G1 and A2 - you know the type. It had a zip in / zip out wool pile body liner for cold weather wear.... if you could get hold of a zip (or other fastening) to match hat your jacket has, that might work...

I have a zip in liner for my 184SM now, its just not very warm, so I am hoping that they can make another type of liner and the collar is detachable with snaps, so Im hoping they can make a shearling collar. But again, can the jacket hold up to my abuse? That I dont know.

Cirrus makes a steroid-enhance Irvin jacket they identify as 2 Plus 2 http://www.flyingjacket.com/2plus2.htm. I have personal correspondence with the company on a version customized to my needs -- longer body, pockets, sleeves similar to what you have in mind, et al. I am more than happy to share the information via PM/E-mail.

Hope this helps.

The Cirrus B3-gunners jacket (which is the jacket I posted a photo of in the first post) is actually exactly what I want, I would just need a bit of custom tailoring done to fit right. I just havent heard much in the way of their quality or customer service and its a lot of money to spend on a jacket from a company who I dont know much about.

 

[Smithy]

The Cirrus B3-gunners jacket (which is the jacket I posted a photo of in the first post) is actually exactly what I want, I would just need a bit of custom tailoring done to fit right. I just havent heard much in the way of their quality or customer service and its a lot of money to spend on a jacket from a company who I dont know much about.

They seem to have a very good reputation for the quality and workmanship of their jackets JLStorm. I'm no authority but personally I haven't heard bad things about their quality or service.