How to incorporate high-tech items into your vintage lifestyle?

[H.Johnson]

Scott

May I respectfully point out that this only occurred to you and your family because you were using a motor vehicle. If you did not drive, it would not have happened. I think you missed an adventure.

 

[David Conwill]

Scott

May I respectfully point out that this only occurred to you and your family because you were using a motor vehicle. If you did not drive, it would not have happened. I think you missed an adventure.

I'm afraid there aren't many places in Ohio that you can live without an automobile. There's virtually* no such thing in the U.S. anymore as a house near a grocer.

-Dave

*with the exception, I'm sure, of some very large cities.

 

[scotrace]

Right. Where I live there is no public transportation at all. You either drive, walk, or in decent weather, bicycle.

My teenage daughters would have surely raised objections to a 30 mile jaunt on foot to buy some pancakes.

 

[H.Johnson]

I think I'm beginning to see the problem. Where I live 30 miles would be considered a major journey. Didn't someone say that the difference between North American and British perceptions was that one group saw one hundred years to be a long time and the other saw one hundred miles to be a long way? I wouldn't live anywhere that didn't have an excellent bus service (I get free bus travel at my age) and the same with local shops, which are a pleasant walk away.

May I ask an innocent and uninformed question? Surely in an unregulated economy the availability of public transport and shops is a function of demand? If a sufficient number of people gave up their cars and determined to shop locally, wouldn't a 'bus company put on a service in order to make a profit and wouldn't local shops open up if people wanted to shop that way?

May I also ask - has your local area always been like this, or is this a modern trend? In other words, were there 'buses and local shops in the 20s and 30s and have they closed down?

 

[PrettySquareGal]

It would be great if this could stay on topic. (It's not that the perceived deficiencies of an Ohio town's transportation or lack of and personal breakfasting habits of a bartender isn't of interest...it's just not so relevant. )

 

[scotrace]

That's the missing key: No demand, and few would give up their cars. Taxicab services tend to wink out in less than a year of starting.

There used to be a train/trolley service, but that stopped running decades ago (the tracks long since torn up and paved over). No buses, except for a Greyhound line that stops daily for travelers heading other points who have absolutely no alternative.

You can find a lot to read about the role of General Motors in the death of passenger rail travel in the USA.

 

[David Conwill]

May I also ask - has your local area always been like this, or is this a modern trend? In other words, were there 'buses and local shops in the 20s and 30s and have they closed down?

To answer the last question first, emphatically yes. Most American cities had thriving downtowns prior to WWII, but the postwar economic boom and government refusal to allow home loans to be used to rehab existing housing led to the rise of the suburbs, interstate freeways, and centralized out-of-town shopping districts. Only now is there a trend back the other way, and I've already heard some short-sighted viewpoints that with gas back down there's no point in investing in public transit or walkable cities.

As for public transit, most American cities of any size had streetcars prior to WWI, but those largely went away in the interwar period, with the last holdouts in major cities going away in the 1950s (with a few notable exceptions like New York and Chicago). There's a popular conspiracy theory that the Pacific Electric street railroads in LA were killed off intentionally by General Motors.

I think I'm beginning to see the problem. Where I live 30 miles would be considered a major journey. Didn't someone say that the difference between North American and British perceptions was that one group saw one hundred years to be a long time and the other saw one hundred miles to be a long way? I wouldn't live anywhere that didn't have an excellent bus service (I get free bus travel at my age) and the same with local shops, which are a pleasant walk away.

Sounds wonderful. It's interesting, though, the last Brit with whom I spoke on this subject said that after WWII there was a similar tearing out of the railways in favor of motorways. But perhaps it wasn't as severe as here? I suppose the limited room to expand kept sprawl more contained over there.

May I ask an innocent and uninformed question? Surely in an unregulated economy the availability of public transport and shops is a function of demand? If a sufficient number of people gave up their cars and determined to shop locally, wouldn't a 'bus company put on a service in order to make a profit and wouldn't local shops open up if people wanted to shop that way?

Yes, but see my response regarding shortsightedness above. Gasoline is still cheap enough here that people prefer to drive to Walmart (a store that to me defines the term "penny wise and pound foolish") rather than shop with local retailers (assuming they still exist in a community with a Walmart). I belong to several groups and am hoping to find employment with someone trying to reverse the trend.

-Dave

 

[scotrace]

It would be great if this could stay on topic. (It's not that the perceived deficiencies of an Ohio town's transportation or lack of and personal breakfasting habits of a bartender isn't of interest...it's just not so relevant. )

My breakfasts are fascinating, silly girl.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

My breakfasts are fascinating, silly girl.

That's NOT what I've heard!

 

[David Conwill]

It would be great if this could stay on topic. (It's not that the perceived deficiencies of an Ohio town's transportation or lack of and personal breakfasting habits of a bartender isn't of interest...it's just not so relevant. )

Sorry PSG, I'm afraid the subject touched a nerve. But yes, back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

-Dave

 

[Miss Neecerie]

See the UK has 'village' styled life (once outside the large city format)....where there are local shops and transport etc...

The US...starting back in the car heydeys of the post war and into the 50's, instead has a 'suburbs' styled life....where living where you do not need to be bothered by having 'ugly commerce' nearby is a feature....after all, you have a car with great big fins, its not a bother to drive 15 minutes to go shopping, you -want- to drive around your area showing it off. Because only -poor folks- who cannot afford to live in suburbias green lawned areas....would be forced to leave -near- shops.


Two -very- fundamentally different mindsets to this...(and yes, as my credential I have indeed experienced both)

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Sorry PSG, I'm afraid the subject touched a nerve. But yes, back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

-Dave

I understand about things hitting a nerve...I can be pretty nervy...I understand...thank you...

 

[scotrace]

That's NOT what I've heard!

Neecerie blabbed about the quality of my company at breakfast??

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Neecerie blabbed about the quality of my company at breakfast??

No one here breakfasts and tells...I can't reveal my source...let's carry on now...hehehe just teasing...

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm afraid there aren't many places in Ohio that you can live without an automobile. There's virtually* no such thing in the U.S. anymore as a house near a grocer.

-Dave

*with the exception, I'm sure, of some very large cities.

I dunno -- I live in a town of less than 8000 people, and I live about two blocks from a supermarket. Easy walking distance all year round. Matter of fact, I've never lived in a very large city, and I've never lived more than a couple of blocks from a grocery store.

I think older Northeastern towns in general tend to remain much more pedestrian-oriented than other parts of the country. The further you get from those areas, though, the more spread-out things tend to get.

 

[H.Johnson]

No one here breakfasts and tells...I can't reveal my source...let's carry on now...hehehe just teasing...

Is all of this on-thread?

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Is all of this on-thread?

Of course not!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Is all of this on-thread?

Wait...yes...yes it is...I got my info via text messages on my BlackBerry.

Anyway....

 

[Gingerella72]

I'm finding this thread fascinating.....both the original topic and the off-topic wanderings.

Neither hubby nor I have a need for a cell. We don't work in jobs where it's required to be on call, or to check email when we're not at work. We don't socialize in a way where we have to be in constant contact with friends and family. We don't have kids. We don't travel. We don't live in a big city. Music is listened to on CD in the car, or on CD on the computer at home (we don't have an ipod or mp3 player, either).

It's not that we're against technology, we just have no need for this particular piece of it. And, income is a big factor there.....we just can't fathom paying that much money per month for service. What I can't understand, either, is even people whose income is lower than ours have cells. Priorities, I guess. [huh]

Now, if the need truly arose to have one, and we could afford it, we would do it.

Now for off-topic ( ) I think most Americans are too entrenched in the mindset of independence to be able to go back to a village-type lifestyle. We don't want to have to depend on others (public transport) to go where we want to go. We love our cars - and the ability to pick up and go where ever we want whenever we want - too much. Plus, most of our cities are no longer designed to easily facilitate walking or biking to get to work, do shopping, etc.

That being said, it's not necessarily a good thing that we're like that. Look at the mess we're in with debt from buying cars (and homes) we can't afford, look at the environmental damage we've created from gas emissions (we just love our SUV's!). We take out expensive memberships at gyms and spend hours on treadmills.....but we balk at having to walk further than one row for a parking spot at Walmart. Walk to the grocery store and carry our purchases home? Not happening.....how would I get those 10 bags of processed junk food home on foot? And how would we get our kids to soccer practice/ballet/tai kwon do/music lessons/Build-a-Bear parties without being able to drive from one end of town to another all day? [sarcasm....love it!]

Anyway, I personally would welcome a change that would turn things around in America to more simple living, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. All I can do is live my life by my own terms, and not by what society dictates as necessary.

 

[scotrace]

PrettySquareGal is surviving with her new Blackberry as the only contact with the outside world atm - long power outage in her area. Hang in there with that new tech, PSG!