Help me order the perfect A2 from Aero !

[ChristianM.]

Hello @ all,

I am right in the middle of ordering an A2 from Aero and wanted to ask if you could share your experiences for creating the perfect one.

My goal is not to have the most accurate A2 replica, instead I want the most durable and good looking one.

So let us think about several points. Just ad your comments to that list. Hopefully with your input i can expand it :

Stitching:

• Olive darb contrast.
• Roll over stiching (read about it in a thread from JanSolo, what do you think?)

Zipper:

• Not the Talon on, only the nickel aero because it works the best.

Lining:

• Most durable? Probably the gabardine material, right? But what about rayon or satin?
  Definitely not tartan, don´t like the pattern.
  I am also a big fan of the alpaca stuff. Really considering having it lined in brown alpaca.
• The jacket should be wearable the hole year through (we don´t have extreme cold winters or hot summers, it is kind of mediterrane...)

Leather

• only heavy FQHH from Horween is an option for me.

"Specialties"

• Name "Initials" tag
• two inside pockets (left & right side)
• I am planning to have the normal Aero labels inside the jacket (like "genuine FQHH" "real Alpaca" etc.), not the military contract lable.

Thank you very much for your help in advance!
I am especially curious about JanSolo´s answer on this, because it seems he knows Aero better than his mother lol .


Christian

 

[PADDY]

Feedback.

Christian, my feedback with annotations to your specs. PADDY.

Hello @ all,

I am right in the middle of ordering an A2 from Aero and wanted to ask if you could share your experiences for creating ther perfect one.PERFECT is a subjective term, personal to the wearer (in this case 'you.') But I can offer 'my own' advice on your order

My goal is not to have the most accurate A2 replica, instead I want the most durable and good looking one. Once again "GOOD LOOKING" is in the eye of the owner (you), but I can offer you tips (from my own experience) on what will look good for an A02 spec jacket.

So let us think about several points. Just ad your comments to that list. Hopefully with your input i can expand it :

Stitching:

• Olive darb contrast.Makes for a nice contrast - YES.
• Roll over stiching (read about it in a thread from JanSolo, what do you think?)

Zipper:

• Not the Talon on, only the nickel aero because it works the best.If that's the one you want, then go with it

Lining:

• Most durable? Probably the gabardine material, right? But what about rayon? Go for the cotton liner, as traditional on the WWII military spec.
  I am also a big fan of the alpaca stuff. Really considering having it lined in brown alpaca.No - don't do it.
• The jacket should be wearable the hole year through (we don´t have extreme cold winters or hot summers, it is kind of mediterrane...)

Leather

• only heavy FQHH from Horween is an option for me.Definitely NO. Don't do it. Far too heavy to look good on an A-2 model. If Aero still do shaved down FQHH, then go with that (but NO FULL WEIGHT FQHH)

"Specialties"

• Name "Initial" tag If you mean an embossed leather name tag for the chest, they YES!
• two inside pockets (left & right side) No. with things like mobiles or keys in them, the shape of the A-2 will look AWFUL.
• I am planning to have the normal Aero labels inside the jacket (like "genuine FQHH" "real Alpaca" etc.), not the military contract lable.

By E.U. Law you will have to have those tags anyway. But you can request for the AERO Civvie label popped in too.

Thank you very much for your help in advance!
I am especially curious about JanSolo´s answer on this, because it seems he knows Aero better than his mother lol .


Christian

 

[Edward]

It's definitely going to be a very different beast than a typical issue A2 if you go with Aero FQHH; in my experience, A2s which are a truer representation of the originals don't tend to be so stiff as that. As your stated aim is, of course, to produce something pratical for your own use rather than an acurate repro (a noble aim, and of course the original A2 "replicas" and leather "bomber jackets" which in the forties and into the fifties cashed in on the romanticised image of the USAAF flyboys modified the design left and right to suit civilian usage...), this doesn't matter so much. My feeling is that the heavy drill cotton Aero offer (as per the lining on my Waterfront) would be your best option for durability, though don't expect it to do much for warmeth in cooler temperatures. Probably your best year-round bet, though...

For a civilain 'A2' , I would definitely look at adding interior pockets. Aero will either do you a traditional pocket in the lining or a G1-style pocket with a vertical entry point in the leather at the zip-edge - this would be my preference as it puts no stress on the jacket's lining when you have something stowed in there.

You might want to think, too, about some modification to the patch pockets on the front of the jacket. One option could be to add handwarmer pockets (Think: Indy style: seid-entry pockets neatly hidden in behind the front patch pockets). That said, I've never missed this feature on my Eastman A2 as the jacket stops high enough that trouser pockets are perfectly accessible.

Do you want to ditch the epaulettes? They're very much part of the military style and a feature I really like, though it might make the jacket more "civilian looking" by dropping them.

Maybe also think about a mouton collar? Quite a few of the civilian jackets sported these, not a million miles away from the field-modified style A2s adopted by the AVG/ Flying Tigers prior to the US's official declaration of ar on Japan after Pearl Harbour.

Anothr little quirk that would help make it your own would be to do something different with the hanging loop - maybe, instead of the leather strip, go for a chain as found in Irvins?

Without taking anything away from those who make and collect accurate jackets that copy what USAAF boys really were issued with until 42/43, I find this sort of project sometimes more interesting, as it is probably much more representative of the sort of jacket that a civilian might have been able to aspire to own back in the day.

 

[Edward]

Paddy, we posted at the same time.... interested in your POV re the inside pockets.... do you find them equally 'problematic' on a USN style jacket, or does the neater cut of, say, an AN6552 make a difference to you there?

Interested in your comment about the FQHH not having the 'correct' drape for an A2.... I think you might have a fair point here now I think about it. My initial concern here, though I dropped it but raise the point again now, was whether the resistance of FQHH would prove a problem as against the knits - i.e. would there be difficult in getting the stitches to hold up during the break in period Aero's FQHH requires?

Oh... why not the Alpaca, is thhis a durabiltiy issue, or the (very likely) prospect of overheating in warmer weather(!)?

Interested in your perspective on tihs as you have much more experience with Aero than do I.

 

[John in Covina]

I really don't know the specifics as to the leather but there are a number of A2 threads where the construction and leather is reviewed by the owners. In some instances like selecting the leather you can make an error and wind up with something too heavy, that might also be too warm for the weather you describe. Some types of leather may take a long time to break in before they are comfortable.

I hope that you can get a number of responses to get an idea as to the pros and cons of the selections you've listed.

 

[John in Covina]

For myself I have found that handwarmer pockets are a fine feature for comfort and while not "accurate" it often makes for a nice choice in cooler weather.

 

[Phantomfixer]

lining

I like the idea of a warmer lining in an A-2 maybe alpaca. Maybe the wool blanket lining as in a tanker then the original cotton lining over it to hide the wool lining. Good questions hope you find the answers. I wouldn't sew a name tag on it though until you know it fits you good.
JZ

 

[tonypaj]

Paddy's got it right, saved me a lot of time. Well, "right" is just an opinion, but he's got the opinion right....

A-2s are tricky, I would not mess too much with them. They are easily the most difficult leather jackets to look good in, most people simply cannot handle the look. There are plenty of different classic leather jackets to go around if you wish to have something unique, built just for you. An A-2 would be about the last one I'd choose if I wished to mess with the original stuff.

 

[ChristianM.]

Thanks to all for the input! :eusa_clap

Some additions:

@ Paddy
Regarding the lining. Because of, as you said, cotton is the only period correct lining, i don´t want it.... I just want to try something different, it should not be like every other A2 out there...
As Edward already asked:
Why do you recommend against the alpaca lining? Durability issues? To warm?

@Edward
- The G1-style pocket with the vertical entry is a great idea! I definitely will go for it, if aero can ad them.
- I am not sure about the handwarmer pockets, because i think the jacket would loose its shape around the "belly-line" if you have them? To you have a pic of your Eastman A2 with that particular pockets?
- Of course I will keep the epaulettes....no way w/o them... They are a style feature i can´t ditch....the look to good, even if my plan is to "de-militarized" the jacket an make it an every day/occasion garment....
- Mouton collar or any other Fur styled collar are not an option because i don´t like the look of it. I think it also doesn´t match the "all seasons" theme
-The hanging loop is definitely something i have to think about. I will try to decide for the right one when i can sample them in real life, when i am at the aero factory...

 

[442RCT]

Just my 2 cents from owning many 'orphan' A-2 jackets with other than standard features. I had one A-2 made with a G-1 type pocket because I liked them on my G-1s. It was good for stowing things, but on an A-2, because the exterior pockets sit lower, and if you have a trim fitting A-2, it tended to 'print' what you were carrying unlike the G-1 or it's counterparts. On one of my Cooper jackets, the manufacturer sewed in a sunglass and pen pocket, which I found great since there is no place to put your sunglasses when you wear an A-2 and a tee shirt. It has two zippered pockets, but I don't use them much.

As for the lining, I have had both kinds, the Willis & Geiger A-2 comes with the rayon and most the others come with the cotton. All the G-1s come with rayon. It's just a personal preference thing. I prefer either the cotton or a red silk liner.

Good luck, and I must now warn you. Like captaincaveman1 you may become addicted to acquiring A-2 jackets :eusa_doh:

 

[UWEZ]

Aero Bomber

Hi Christian,

when authenticity doesn't matter that much to you,
why aren't you taken the Aero Bomber Jacket? It has the
A-2 style, but also handwarmer pockets.

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/5892718

Regards & and good luck with your choice.

Uwe

 

[Gancho]

Hi Christian,

I will get a Aero 38-1711-P Type A-2 in about 2 weeks. The jacket will be in heavy frontquarter horsehide. The rest is mil. spec.

I will also get a jacket for my girlfriend. It ia an A-2 with handwarmerpockets under the "normal" pocket, nearly unvisible, a mouton collar and other specials.

Linning:I know that in an A-2 only the thin lining is possible! That is because the lining has no leather around (heavy to describe). We wanted to have a alpaca lining, but Amanda says: unpossible. Auf deutsch: Da das Futter bis an den Rand der Jacke geht kann kein dickes Futter verarbeitet werden.

If you wait for 2 more weeks you can have photo´s of the jackets.

So long

Oliver

 

[JoeNiblick]

I'm looking forward first to Gancho's photos, then yours! I've never been a huge fan A2s, but with all this talk, they're starting to grow on me!

 

[Grinder]

A word of caution on too many mods with an A2, or getting too unique with an Aero.

One of the great benefits of Aeroleather is their trade in policy - if you don't like the jacket after a couple of years you can get a very decent trade in discount on your next.
If these mods will harm the resale value then it might limit your future options if you want to trade for a different size or a different look.

That said I had mine "modded" with red cotton lining and inside pockets.

I wanted red silk as per the most original of AAF specs before they went to the cost efficient mustard cotton. No silk with Aero now so I took the red cotton option. It has historic kudos but personally I don't have 5 "kills", or 2 for that matter, so I'm still a lowly civil servant
Will it affect resale? maybe, but only hard-core authentisists will be bothered by it. If it really bothers the resale the lining can be replaced.

Alpaca? Well, if you're near a ski resort or up the Austrian mountains great. If you're more Mediterranean or hovering between 25-30C I would avoid alpaca. Not really all seasons.

Inside pockets. Granted if you put things in there they will show through and ruin the A-2 look as Paddy rightly pointed out. However, done correctly (or sympathetically) they can be useful. There is a more correct mod using large patch pockets stitched through to the outside. Historically accurate but to me a bit ugly.
Mine are stitched patches using extra lining material and relatively large (6" x 6"). With nothing in them you have the A-2 look.
With a slim phone and small key sets they are hardly noticeable. Other than that I keep thin traveller notebooks,pen\pencil passport and flight tickets.
They will show through when zipped if the fit is snug but to be honest easy access to flight documents is a bonus when travelling.
Will it affect resale? Again only to the purists and as above the lining can be replaced, or the pockets removed or ignored.

As for the leather - stick with smooth horse or goat. If you want a more rugged look then the jerky horse is an option. I agree with the others that heavy front quarter won't drap right - but I think we should hold for Gancho's input there.

Best of luck mate. Half the fun is in deciding

 

[442RCT]

That said I had mine "modded" with red cotton lining and inside pockets.

I wanted red silk as per the most original of AAF specs before they went to the cost efficient mustard cotton. No silk with Aero now so I took the red cotton option. It has historic kudos but personally I don't have 5 "kills", or 2 for that matter, so I'm still a lowly civil servant
Will it affect resale? maybe, but only hard-core authentisists will be bothered by it. If it really bothers the resale the lining can be replaced.

Best of luck mate. Half the fun is in deciding

When I had this jacket custom made for me, the last thing on my mind was re-sale value, after all it was custom measured, etc. I wanted a G-1 pocket and the tailor misunderstood and put a pocket on both sides, he even embroidered one pocket with my name.. I asked for a red silk liner, they didn't have any silk, so they put in a bright red rayon liner (If I'm ever wearing this jacket and need to be rescued, all I have to do is wear it inside out to be spotted. lol ). It's highly unlikely I'll ever wear it though since it's been signed by 5 AVG pilots and I keep it in framed case.

 

[Speedbird]

Hi Christian,

when authenticity doesn't matter that much to you,
why aren't you taken the Aero Bomber Jacket? It has the
A-2 style, but also handwarmer pockets.

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/5892718

Regards & and good luck with your choice.

Uwe

welcome to someone from Mongolia! I don't know if your are the first - but you probably are! :eusa_clap I like Mongolia - a lot!

 

[UWEZ]

Hi Speedbird!

Thanks for the warm welcome and indeed I might be the only one in the forum from Mongolia, however I am not Mongolian
Nice community here and interesting topics to follow.
Regards

Uwe

 

[JanSolo]

Hi,

I don't see why I should be of more help than others on this forum. And by no means I am an expert on A2s. When it comes to this wide field of research it's fair to call me only a novice or something similar...

Obviously your are looking for a utilitarian jacket with A2 looks. Therefore Aero wouldn't even think about sewing an original contract label in such a jacket. So if authenticity is only a minor factor but you are looking for the coolest look here are my thoughts:

- Get the 1938 contract. It's very slim fitting, has cool pockets with beautiful flaps, and a collar stand (ask for leather backing for the stand collar as the lining easily stains in the neck area)

- If you go for FQHH, Aero will have to make this jacket w/o collar stand as the leather is too thick for that

- If you go for mid weight leather go for seal jerky hh or seal goat (my favourite type of leather)

- Ask for inside leather facings on the zipper. It will protect the lining and it looks good when the jacket is unzipped

- No inside pockets please. They will make the jacket too bulky.

- Yes, for a daily wearer always the nickel or brass Aero zip

- Make sure the body length is how you want it. A2s can sometimes be very short, especially when they are patterned after historical contracts

- Go for a tartan lining for the body and a thick synthetic rayon lining for the sleeves (for ease of wear) Aero virtually offers dozens of different tartans. Ask them for reference links or pics. Tartans are available in really beautiful colours. Browse this forum and you'll find many cool examples.

- Good luck.

 

[ChristianM.]

Thank you for your answer Jan.
Still some questions:

Hi,

I don't see why I should be of more help than others on this forum. And by no means I am an expert on A2s. When it comes to this wide field of research it's fair to call me only a novice or something similar...

Obviously your are looking for a utilitarian jacket with A2 looks. Therefore Aero wouldn't even think about sewing an original contract label in such a jacket. So if authenticity is only a minor factor but you are looking for the coolest look here are my thoughts:

- Get the 1938 contract. It's very slim fitting, has cool pockets with beautiful flaps, and a collar stand (ask for leather backing for the stand collar as the lining easily stains in the neck area)

Collar stand, good idea! A small strip of leather sewn in behind the bottom edge of the collar, right? Like here: http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/ev_images2/ELCrw27752_neck2.jpg
But what do you you mean with a "Leather backing"? You mean instead of the lining inside the collar, aero should but a strip of leather as on the outside?

- If you go for FQHH, Aero will have to make this jacket w/o collar stand as the leather is too thick for that

- If you go for mid weight leather go for seal jerky hh or seal goat (my favourite type of leather)

- Ask for inside leather facings on the zipper. It will protect the lining and it looks good when the jacket is unzipped

Did you mean that the lining should not go as far as to the zippers edge? Instead there should be a "leather margin" inside the jacket as can be seen here: http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL806/142228/2851437/206206390.jpg

- No inside pockets please. They will make the jacket too bulky.

- Yes, for a daily wearer always the nickel or brass Aero zip

- Make sure the body length is how you want it. A2s can sometimes be very short, especially when they are patterned after historical contracts

- Go for a tartan lining for the body and a thick synthetic rayon lining for the sleeves (for ease of wear) Aero virtually offers dozens of different tartans. Ask them for reference links or pics. Tartans are available in really beautiful colours. Browse this forum and you'll find many cool examples.

Already found the list of the 500 differnt patterns. http://www.lochcarron.com/reiver.htm -> gonna be tough decision and a long night behind the PC

- Good luck.

 

[JanSolo]

Yes, and yes, and yes!

No, im Ernst, a collar arrangement with collar stand is more difficult to make ...some enthusiast would even call it sophisticated but it's defintively a trademark of the early pre-war contracts. I personally like it but due to the cotton "lining" of the stand collar it's very prone to wear and general staining. So order w/o collar stand (I guess, that's what Aero would recommend) or make sure to get a full leather stand collar (impossible with FQHH).
The pic you pinched from Mark's site shows an M422a which does have very nice leather facings. They really look good and eliminate premature wear on the lining. With this interior layout it's also impossible that the zipper might catch the lining and shred it. (Had that on a Real McCoy's)

If you don't find a lining that suits your taste on the Lochcarron site, I guess olive drab gabardine is a good and comfortable option. As durable as Aero's famed cotton drill but much smoother and softer to the skin. It also doesn't grip your clothes as much as drill does.

Re the zip: Aero's own branded YKK is really really good. I have one on my modified civi M422a and it's super smooth, it never jams and the bottom parts (male and female) show absolutely NO signs of wear. Aero also uses the RiRi zip which might be even higher in quality (Swiss made and quite expensive for a zip) but I am not sure if that one is available on brown tape. You will have to ask.

Again happy hunting and viel Glück mit der neuen Joppe!