Help: Borsalino v Stetson size differance

[zetwal]

I have a couple contemporary Borsalino fedoras that fit me perfectly and I am trying to figure out what size I would likely wear in a vintage Stetson fedora.

Given that I wear a 7 1/8 (57) modern Borsalino what size would I likely wear in a very old Borsalino? Would it be marked the same? or have their sizes changed over the decades? And what about a Stetson? What size would I likely need in a vintage Stetson fedora?

If you wear my size and have experience in this area please do help me. I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks! Eric

 

[Lefty]

Vintage hats are always a risk. Some of them have shrunk, so the tagged size doesn't represent the true circumference. This is true of all brands.

Some old Borsalinos only have Punti sizes shown, while modern examples tend to have tags that give the size in US, UK, Punti, and CM standards. Here's a link for translating one size to another.

I've found that vintage Stetsons tend to run a hair smaller than vintage Borsalinos that are tagged the same size, but that might just be me.

 

[zetwal]

Thanks for your reply Lefty. When you say that in your experience Stetson tends to run smaller than Borsalino do you mean "a" or "b" below?

a) 7 1/8 Borsalino = 7 Stetson
b) 7 1/8 Borsalino = 7 1/4 Stetson

 

[Lefty]

For me, a 7 1/2 is a 7 1/2 in either make. The Stetson will be a bit more snug, but not enough to warrant going up a size. The most reliable measure is the circumference of the sweatband, though it's really difficult to get an accurate measure, and sellers often get it (very) wrong.

 

[zetwal]

It's interesting that you say that Stetson may fit more snugly Borsalino. The only other person to advise me thus far says exactly the opposite! He insists that if I wear a 7 1/8 Borsalino I will most likely need a 7 Stetson. I know that measuring the band as most do is usually very inaccurate - that's why I posted the question here. I was hoping to be able to rely more on the marked size and was thinking that perhaps there would be some sort of agreement about this. Perhaps your own observation will prove to be the more common. I do hope that others will share their own observations. Especially if they wear the same size as do I.

Thanks again Lefty!

 

[Bird's One View]

It's interesting that you say that Stetson may fit more snugly Borsalino. The only other person to advise me thus far says exactly the opposite! He insists that if I wear a 7 1/8 Borsalino I will most likely need a 7 Stetson....

Modern Borsalinos fit significantly more snugly than modern Stetsons. Vintage may be different.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Yeah, I think modern Stetsons run larger than they used to. Your friend may be thinking that way.

 

[kaosharper1]

Modern Borsalinos fit significantly more snugly than modern Stetsons. Vintage may be different.

I just bought a vintage Borsalino. It's marked 7 1/4 but it fits like a 7 3/8 which is great since that's my size. I thought it might actually be a British 7 1/4 but there's no way to tell.

 

[tonyb]

I have a couple contemporary Borsalino fedoras that fit me perfectly and I am trying to figure out what size I would likely wear in a vintage Stetson fedora.

Given that I wear a 7 1/8 (57) modern Borsalino what size would I likely wear in a very old Borsalino? Would it be marked the same? or have their sizes changed over the decades? And what about a Stetson? What size would I likely need in a vintage Stetson fedora?

If you wear my size and have experience in this area please do help me. I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks! Eric

Welcome to the wonderful world of vintage hat sizes, Eric.

Truth is, unless 1.) the seller knows hats, or 2.) you can try on the hat before deciding on a purchase, it's usually a crapshoot.

I tend to give most online sellers the benefit of the doubt, figuring that their misrepresentations are born of a lack of knowledge rather than dishonesty. The trick is turning the average seller's ignorance to your advantage. And even when you've figured out your own ways of doing just that, you still run into unpleasant surprises, such as a recent go-round I had with a seller who didn't seem to think that a 1-inch error in his measurement of a hat block amounted to a material misrepresentation. He probably still thinks he's right about this, even though PayPal sided with me and I was refunded the purchase price and the S&H, but I still had to eat the return shipping charges.

As the varying experiences of those who have already responded would indicate, hat sizes are quite inconsistent, even in new hats. It gets even chancier when you get into old lids, which may well have shrunk, or been stretched, over the course of their lives.

I advise that you take the stated size of a vintage hat as an approximation at best. In other words, if you wear a 7 1/4, it's probably safe to assume that a size 7 will be too small, and a 7 1/2 too large. But a 7 1/8 or a 7 3/8 may fit well. And it may not. And even a 7 1/4 might be off.

Now, doesn't that make things clear?

Seriously, though, if you err in either direction, it's probably best to go larger rather than smaller. It's usually easier, and safer, to stuff something behind the sweatband than to stretch.

 

[zetwal]

Many thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. The situation is pretty much as I expected and the way Tony sums it up is quite elegant.

Putting to the side the fact that the use or age of a hat can change its size and shape, one would think that the measurement of an oval is something that could have been standardized long ago, and that, at the very least, a given maker could be consistant within their own standard.

Alas! the real world is so much quirkier and interesting than this.

Thanks again! E

 

[tonyb]

You may be getting into this vintage hat thing at a good time, Eric. My (wholly anecdotal, mind you) observation is that prices on vintage attire in general have stabilized in recent months, and even come down a bit. Attribute that to economic jitters, I suppose. It appears that lots of folks are being considerably more cautious with their expenditures than they were a short while back, even if their individual circumstances haven't actually changed.

Me, I've always been bargain conscious (some call it "cheap," which is fine by me). I'm not saying that a couple hundred bucks or more for a fine vintage hat is too much to spend, because it isn't, but I am saying that similarly desirable old lids can be had for a small fraction of that amount, provided you are willing to take the time to hunt 'em out. And a little luck doesn't hurt, either.

 

[Justdog]

Stetson/Borsalino

I have a couple contemporary Borsalino fedoras that fit me perfectly and I am trying to figure out what size I would likely wear in a vintage Stetson fedora.

Given that I wear a 7 1/8 (57) modern Borsalino what size would I likely wear in a very old Borsalino? Would it be marked the same? or have their sizes changed over the decades? And what about a Stetson? What size would I likely need in a vintage Stetson fedora?

If you wear my size and have experience in this area please do help me. I'd really appreciate it.

Many thanks! Eric

What I find fairly helpful, as the point on circumference is well worth heeding, Is to get an accurate measure of the front to back side to side inside oval measurement.

 

[zetwal]

Yes! I agree with measuring the x-y axis of the oval. And I never understood why that isn't used more. It's much easier to measure two straight line segments than to measure an interior circumference. Not only does the cross give you a sense of the contours of a particular oval it may be a more accurate way to estimate circumference as well. ~ E