Hats in restaurants

[Phantomfixer]

I'm sure there's a thread about this somewhere. I just can't find it....[huh]

While out on a stroll tonight I saw this at a very nice gourmet restaurant in town. That's not very gentlemanly of him...

Maybe he is bald on top? I have seen alot of military retirees let what hair they have left grow really long for the first few years. Then reality snaps back in that they are not teenagers anymore, no offense to any teens here.

 

[Tiller]

Maybe he is bald on top? I have seen alot of military retirees let what hair they have left grow really long for the first few years. Then reality snaps back in that they are not teenagers anymore, no offense to any teens here.

That could be true, I didn't really think of that. Some people are more worried about their lack of hair then manners lol.

 

[Mr E Train]

Had to go to a funeral in Tennessee today, and along the way we stopped at a Cracker Barrel for brunch. A young guy with a long ponytail down to his shoulders, shorts, an open plaid shirt with a t-shirt underneath, and a fairly decent looking stingy Milan fedora walked in, and when he walked into the restaurant part, he removed his hat. I was rather surprised and heartened by his good manners.

 

[Tenuki]

As far as women go, the reason women in the past were never required to remove their hats was because most of their hats back then were pinned to their hair. There's a big difference between that and a simple fedora. IMHO a modern woman wearing a fedora should remove their hat in a fine establishment, just as any man would though.

Thanks Tiller, I forgot about hatpins. I currently own modern women's hats and vintage men's hats. No vintage women's hats - yet. I'll follow the etiquette suited to the gender of my hat.

 

[Woodfluter]

Must second many of ScottF's comments. Nonetheless with regard to others:

Nice thing to preserve the courtesies of the past. However, I have to ask - what's a maitre d'? Yes, I understand the concept but haven't encountered one in ages. Down here in Georgia, and in many other places, that role has been taken by a well-meaning young hostess who might respond "hat? I don't know, maybe put it on the floor?"

Secondly, I live in the present while respecting the virtues of the past. I suspect that those of yesteryear would have done the same, and if they encountered establishments ill-equipped to deal with headgear they would simply have worn their hats regardless. Times and expectations evolve.

Maybe we could all keep asking for coat and hat hooks and maybe, some day, these places would eventually invest the few dollars to install them?!

Also I agree with Tenuki, but might add that this whole hat indoors thing is somewhat artificial. Quakers (sort of like me) long objected to having to remove the hat, because it indicated subservience to those of a different "quality". Jews (as my wife) have a religious objection to the same. But for others it implies a lack of courtesy. C'mon, it's arbitrary.

The best definition I've yet seen of "manners" amounted to "respect for other's feelings". To be aware of what others might find offensive, and avoid doing that for trivial reasons.

- Bill

 

[ScottF]

I agree. I know this isn't the entire board, but many of us indeed are interested in bringing older ideals back into the main stream. What's interesting about that is the fact that on this board you will find many from all points of view arguing for the general same idea. Most of us believe 2010 is far from ideal, and would improve greatly if multiple aspects of the past were revived. Oddly in this libertine age that makes most of us "counter culture". Attempting to show respect to those around you is now looked down on, and seen as acting "high and mighty". How? Who knows really, society has evolved considerably from what it was. If I wanted to act like the mainstream in 2010, I'd wear pajama bottoms and a sweatshirt with flip flops as I did my daily errands.

I'm not saying we should return to a Victorian ideal that never really existed, I am saying for those of us who see many things wrong with the modern age, a little chivalrous behavior can go a long way, and is usually appreciated by those around you.

Your in a fine dining establishment, you should take your hat off. Doesn't matter if it's a fedora, top hat, or baseball cap, there is really no reason to wear it. A hat's main purpose is to protect you from the outside elements, it being a part of style is just it's secondary purpose, if your inside (none the less sitting down and eating) you should take it off.

The same goes with swearing and the like. It's one thing to swear like a stable boy when your smoking cigars and playing cards with your friends. It's another thing to do it in restaurant. It's a sign of respect, and acknowledgment to those around you that you actually know how to behave like an adult, and aren't interested in living in perpetual childhood like so many in our culture are today.

As far as women go, the reason women in the past were never required to remove their hats was because most of their hats back then were pinned to their hair.lol There's a big difference between that and a simple fedora. IMHO a modern woman wearing a fedora should remove their hat in a fine establishment, just as any man would though.

So three cheers for the rules of old!! Just don't be too much of a hard ass about it lol .

If you want to take your hat off every time you walk into a public building, then go for it. But I did notice the word 'fine' come up twice in your post, which is a lot different from most of the restaurants I frequent. I generally wear very nice hats, and I'm simply not subjecting them to coffee spills, the floor, etc., as some of you are willing to do. I've had coffee, honey, etc., spilled on my hats, and I've learned my lesson.

After reading and participating in this thread today, I'm thinking some need to rethink why they wear fedoras - is it to have people look at you and to intentionally pass favorable judgement on you? Or is it because you like wearing fedoras?

I believe this thread might have just turned me back into a baseball cap guy.

 

[danofarlington]

There's no extra chair (that I see) to put it on, and even if they do have a coat check, I wouldn't hand my $xoo hat to anyone. No one knows how to handle them.

You got that right. Also, if I have a nice hat, I always worry that someone else could tell the hat checker "that's my hat over there." My expensive hats stay with me.

 

[Woodfluter]

I believe this thread might have just turned me back into a baseball cap guy.

Oh no Scott, say it isn't so, please don't turn to the dark side!!!

Seriously, an interesting exploration of values and etiquette from a very narrow, self-defined group. Of which I'm one, and you too.

- Bill

 

[Blackthorn]

Oh no Scott, say it isn't so, please don't turn to the dark side!!!

Seriously, an interesting exploration of values and etiquette from a very narrow, self-defined group. Of which I'm one, and you too.

- Bill

:eusa_clap Well said, Fluter.

 

[Chainsaw]

Now that there's been a discussion, not to offend the poster as I find him interesting. And not to offend myself self, in some kind of karmic reverberation. But is it not worse manners to "snap" a photo of someone, then to dine with ones hat on?

 

[Blackthorn]

Now that there's been a discussion, not to offend the poster as I find him interesting. And not to offend myself self, in some kind of karmic reverberation. But is it not worse manners to "snap" a photo of someone, then to dine with ones hat on?

Maybe so.

 

[skyvue]

Down here in Georgia, and in many other places, that role has been taken by a well-meaning young hostess who might respond "hat? I don't know, maybe put it on the floor?"

I've handed my hat to many a young woman who knew just what to do with it. It's not that hard. Most restaurants have a spot that will suit the purpose just fine, even if it wasn't originally intended for that.

I'm thinking some need to rethink why they wear fedoras - is it to have people look at you and to intentionally pass favorable judgement on you? Or is it because you like wearing fedoras?

One could just as easily ask whether you wear a fedora because you like it, or is it that you just like playing the rebel and keeping your hat on affords you an opportunity to flout long-accepted rules of etiquette.

 

[suitedcboy]

I think they got this etiquette thing all hosed up a long time ago. A hat is worn a relatively clean and low odor part of one's body.
Your undergarments on the other hand are worn on a part of one's body that in the past would likely be malodorous and maybe even unclean.
I think we transcribed etiquette incorrectly at some point in the past. I think hats were kept on in a building, restaurant, etc. It was one's underwear you checked at the door.

I'll keep my hat on, you can hold my boxers if you wish.

 

[The Good]

some need to rethink why they wear fedoras - is it to have people look at you and to intentionally pass favorable judgement on you? Or is it because you like wearing fedoras?

I believe this thread might have just turned me back into a baseball cap guy.

I sometimes mentally ask myself that sort of question... I know right now at least, the reason that I do wear my fedoras, is because I like them for their function just as I like them for their style; they offer good sun protection (they cover the ears, something caps don't do), and I sometimes get nice compliments on the side, from both young (most often college girls my age) and old (in this case, mostly older or middle-aged men who either wear them or admire the style). So there, I suppose I've just written down my reasons for wearing them. I can't complain, honestly, although I do sometimes get a bit of backlash against it from my siblings. Less now than a month ago, it seems...

I like fedoras to begin with, by the way, it isn't just for the looks and compliments I may receive. I kind of have a theory on why I like fur felt hats the way I do. Originally, I was into cowboy hats as a kid, and owned a fur felt (don't know manufacturer) that I wore for a few years. Well, I stopped the cowboy thing at around 11 years old. Now that was my first real exposure to fur felt brimmed hats. I believe this (rather repressed after age 11) interest evolved over the years to include the fedoras, which I presently wear. For about nine years though, I was the sort of guy to go hatless 99% of the time apart from the occasional baseball cap, which never really caught on with me. I respect people that like them, but I just never felt like they were "for me," you know? Brimmed hats are my thing, they have been since childhood, and in a way, I rediscovered them a year ago.

 

[donnc]

After reading and participating in this thread today, I'm thinking some need to rethink why they wear fedoras - is it to have people look at you and to intentionally pass favorable judgement on you? Or is it because you like wearing fedoras?

I believe this thread might have just turned me back into a baseball cap guy.

A matter of style, it seems to me. One could imagine a scale. On the low end, someone who dresses as though he were alone on this earth, with no one to see him (or no one who matters.) This person might wear a hat for comfort - one of the local mental cases whom I haven't seen for a while wore something like a shower cap, I'm sure that's pretty functional. I would expect someone who wears an expensive fedora to show up somewhere towards the other end of the scale, and your baseball cap of course somewhere in the middle.

If your preference for stylish hats is really sort of an accident, then this discussion may not really have anything to do with you, but it's hard to believe any of the guys here who spend big bucks for fur felt fedoras are doing it because, for example, a watch cap is too itchy. And if it's about style, then it's very much about how it relates to a cultural context, and about how others respond. From a style point of view, wearing a hat at the table is uncultured. That's my view, anyway; you have to decide for yourself where you want to stand on that, and of course an uncultured man in the US today will have plenty of company, so maybe that's culture of a sort.

 

[JimWagner]

I've handed my hat to many a young woman who knew just what to do with it. It's not that hard. Most restaurants have a spot that will suit the purpose just fine, even if it wasn't originally intended for that.

I think this varies quite a bit with what part of a country we are talking about. It also varies with whether you are in a large city or a small town. What may be normal or even common in NYC probably won't be all that common elsewhere. For that matter, what may be common outside of NYC may be rare there. Specific matters of etiquette have always varied by region.

The unfortunate tendency in a forum like this is to take a narrow view of manners as if we all lived in the same city and culture. We don't even all live in the same country, folks.

The best you can do is be aware of what constitutes good manners where you live and try to be mannerly within the reality of that.

Trying to impose manners on others just isn't mannerly.

 

[danofarlington]

which hat is that

Ask the waiter for a chair if necessary, but get the hat OFF YOUR HEAD! You are in a restaurant. End of discussion.

In your avatar, that's a good brim on your hat, the width I prefer. What kind of hat is it?

 

[danofarlington]

apart from the occasional baseball cap, which never really caught on with me. I respect people that like them, but I just never felt like they were "for me," you know? Brimmed hats are my thing, they have been since childhood, and in a way, I rediscovered them a year ago.

That's my view of baseball caps too--they never worked for me, although I cheer on all who want to use them. Brimmed hats are my thing also--all the more so because so rare out there--it's something I thought up independently in my area, and so constitutes a personal style.

Two more points. One, in restaurants I take off my hat because I don't want the other people to be offended, given that the preponderance of etiquette is (like in church) for men to take them off, although women, if they wore hats, which they don't, could do it. If there isn't a spare chair under the table to put it on, I keep it on my knee, like I do on the airplane. A pain but I mistrust hat checkers with an expensive hat, probably unreasonably so. But if others want to do it and change opinion, fine. I don't care that much and am more interested in fitting into the norm in that respect.

One unrelated point. We all are into hats because it's new and different. It's only because we've hat about fifty years of hatless space, that it's now a style we can all cop. But why did it go out of fashion? Easy: With the rise of rock music in the 1960s, and the Beatles and Stones in particular, hair was the thing. For men, your hair was the big deal. Let nothing get in the way of showing that off. I was definitely into that in the 1960s and 70s. Had long hair. Of course, that's when I had hair. Now, I think a hat is the male adornment in the same way that women's hair is their adornment. Actually it's better than hair--you can buy hats, and if you lose it, no problem.

 

[Wolfwood]

I've been raised to follow certain basic rules of politeness, one of which is to remove one's hat in restaurants and other more "intimate" settings (people's houses, offices, clerk's desks). I do keep it on in markets, office buildings (general areas) etc.

When I see men wearing baseball caps or any other headwear indoors, I shake my head at the people who raised those people.

In restaurants, I pick a table with an extra seat, or hang my hat from some suitable object (if I want to make a point to the restaurant workers). Fortunately, there still are some restaurants with proper shelves to put hats on (although I've sometimes found them dusty).

 

[Mr_D.]

Down here in Georgia, and in many other places, that role has been taken by a well-meaning young hostess who might respond "hat? I don't know, maybe put it on the floor?"
- Bill

I live in North GA and so far the only places I have seen to have a place for hats is the local Longhorn Steak House. The hooks are near the door so I don't trust leaving my hat there so I always ask for a booth so there is a place to put my hat.