Hats and Privacy Vs Public Security

[Ben]

Go with me on this one for a minute...I had this thought and wanted to see what others think, especially some of our overseas members.

It seems to me that hads could be a simple way to ensure some modicum of privacy. In a world that is bulging with surveillance camers, a hat can let you move through places without putting your face on everyone's closed circuit TV. There is a reason that some banks have adopted a no hats rule for customers.

Thoughts?

(By the way, if the bar tenders think this should be elsewhere, move it acccordingly. Thanks.)

Thread was moved because the subject is bigger than hats. -- Matt Deckard

 

[J.T.Marcus]

I hear you suggesting a practical side to our hobby (or maybe I should use the word "clandestine"). However, you may have hit on a psychological aspect to the collecting and wearing of hats. I'm basically an introvert, though my job demands that I be outgoing. A nice hat gives me a feeling of security and protection. In spite of our thread about cruel comments people have made to us about our hats, the truth is most folks don't know what to say when they see a nice hat on your head. So they don't say anything about it! This gives us a certain psychological advantage. Remember the cowboy sleeping with his hat over his eyes? The message was clear, "I'm sleeping. Don't mess with me." When he woke up and put his hat back on top of his head, the message was, "I'm awake now, but that doesn't mean you can mess with me."

 

[Bantam Man]

Ben,

I haven't investigated my visibility to camera's. But my intuition is that, wearing a hat, I have less privacy than without it. Think about it:

Say, I walk through a shopping mall hatless, with ordinary clothes on, and with that everyman face of mine: a quarter of an hour later, most of the trespassers will not specifically remember me...

Next, I do the same walk with a good lid on my head... :fedora: Over here, in Northern Europe, that makes me a strange bird. I see people looking up to my head when I pass them. And I am quite sure they remember that.

So I wear my hats proudly, but far from incognito.

Bantam Man

 

[Topper]

Wouldn't happen in Captain Mainwaring's bank!

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Say, I walk through a shopping mall hatless, with ordinary clothes on, and with that everyman face of mine: a quarter of an hour later, most of the trespassers will not specifically remember me...

Next, I do the same walk with a good lid on my head... :fedora: Over here, in Northern Europe, that makes me a strange bird.

Exactly. This was verbalised by my wife a couple of days ago. We were invited for a Friday night dinner, and when she picked me up, I saw her looking around. I went to where she was standing, and she remarked "Ah, there you are! Usually I just watch out for the bloke with the hat…."

Did I mention we had said to meet in the synagogue courtyard….

 

[Spitfire]

I have a feeling that you are "fair game" when wearing a hat over here. Like everybody can comment on you. Nice comments, jokes, everything... While not wearing a hat, makes you just like everybody else.
Never worry about cameraes though. I don't really care either.
But - then again - I have nothing to hide.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Go with me on this one for a minute...I had this thought and wanted to see what others think, especially some of our overseas members.

It seems to me that hads could be a simple way to ensure some modicum of privacy. In a world that is bulging with surveillance camers, a hat can let you move through places without putting your face on everyone's closed circuit TV. There is a reason that some banks have adopted a no hats rule for customers.

Thoughts?

In the UK, many enclosed public places (e.g. pubs and restaurants) with CCTV coverage have enforced a 'no hat' rule indoors for some time (see previous threads for debate). This has now extended to a few 'outdoor' private spaces (e.g. forecourts and outdoor dining areas). Now my local authority is allegedly considering making its car parks and public recreational spaces 'hatless' zones (classing hats alongside alcohol and weapons).

There is even a move to cut vandalism in a local 'country park' (that's a piece of woodland) by installing CCTV cameras among the trees. So it seems that the spread of CCTV cameras is inexorable, and that the 'anti-hat' regulations may follow them. So, we will always be able to wear hats in our own homes and cars, right?

Well... a guy who plays for my local soccer team has just been imprisoned for 'perverting the course of justice'. He was caught on a speed camera, and swore in court that his father was driving the car to get off a ban. However, another traffic camera had recorded that the player was driving. I've seen both guys, and one is just an older version of the other. You certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they had both been wearing hats...

Let's not go there.

Alan

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

So, a wig, thick glasses, Marlon-Brando style cotton in your mouth and a false beard would be fine, as long as you don't wear a decent hat?

And are you allowed to enter a public parking lot with your trousers on?

 

[Alan Eardley]

So, a wig, thick glasses, Marlon-Brando style cotton in your mouth and a false beard would be fine, as long as you don't wear a decent hat?

And are you allowed to enter a public parking lot with your trousers on?

We are getting away from the wearing of hats, I fear. At the moment such disguises are legal. Of course, the regulations that govern the wearing of hats in areas with CCTV 'security' are intended to apply to a certain type of young 'criminal' which uses a large-billed baseball cap, a pulled-down woollen hat or a hood to conceal their identity while carrying out their nefarious activities. Due to insane political correctness, however, the regulations have to cover all ages, genders and types of person. So, no hats for anyone.

Trousers are still a requirement in most parking lots, although (lamentably) shorts are also legal in such places.

I think you are on to something here. If we could persuade the young criminal types for whom the regulations are intended to adopt the disguise you propose, that would 'take the heat off' hats and we could go about our business in peace.

Alan

 

[Feraud]

Privacy.. if everyone would stop with the mundane cell phone conversations in public we would all have enough privacy.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Privacy.. if everyone would stop with the mundane cell phone conversations in public we would all have enough privacy.

Ahhh, yes. Off topic, but perfectly true.

Alan

 

[funneman]

Great thread!

I have thought about this quite a lot for some reason.

In some ways I feel like I have more privacy with a hat, in some ways I feel like I have less.

When I see myself in security cameras I'm struck by how you can't see my face at all. Since most cameras are ceiling mounted, all you can see is the top of my hat. I'm sometimes surprised the folks at the bank don't ask me to remove it.

On the other hand being that "guy who always wears a hat" makes me realize how how easy it is to identify me.

Anytime I go to pick up my kids somewhere, they always find me bacause they always look for a hat.

I also find that as soon as I get angry about something, or do something stupid, I automatically remove my hat. As if wearing a hat suddenly makes me look silly.

Anyone else notice this?

 

[Ben]

The Man in the Hat

I had that thoought about being "the guy in the hat' and to me that is another reason to encourage more people to wear them.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Privacy.. if everyone would stop with the mundane cell phone conversations in public we would all have enough privacy.

fftopic: You're not alone on this one...:rage:


Cheers,
JtL

 

[Feraud]

fftopic: You're not alone on this one...:rage:


Cheers,
JtL

My point earlier is how can anyone fear a surveillance camera when we disclose our private business in public?

 

[carter]

There's a lady at Dutch Ary Gallery here in Dallas who says I don't look like "Mr. Carter" without my Panama. She like the no socks, linen pants, white shirt, and a Panama look.

 

[Paisley]

I feel more conspicuous, but also feel I have more privacy in a hat.

 

[Tango Yankee]

David Brin wrote a book that was published almost 10 years ago titled "The Transparent Society" in which he talks about the future with cameras everywhere. He says the first public CCTV cameras were installed in Kings Lynn, UK.

While I was stationed over there a couple of my troops went to Cambridge to shop and see a movie. They parked their car in a parking garage and went into the mall. A few hours later they came out and found the car missing. About the time they were reporting the theft to the police the car was found elsewhere, burning. It had been used in a robbery. Naturally, the police were a bit suspicious of the whole thing. Fortunately for my troops, CCTV clearly showed them leaving the car and others taking it.

Also while I was stationed there I found that there were a couple of petrol stations who would not let you (if a motorcyclist) pay for your petrol unless you took your helmet off. A hassle if you were riding in inclement weather and had everything arranged to keep the rain from running down your neck!

Hats do tend to make you stand out, but I'd bet that if someone who didn't see you regularly were to try to describe you they'd probably be able to say you were wearing a hat, but that's about it. So, though wearing a hat may draw some attention to you, the hat likely would also disguise you a bit since their attention would be on the hat and not you.

I recently had an experience that shows just how little people you do know and see regularly actually pay attention. When I shaved off my beard only a couple of people noticed, even when I asked point blank if they noticed anything different about me.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Bebop]

As far as privacy is concerned, I take it for granted that once I leave my home or car, everyone can hear and see what I am doing. When in public or on the phone, I don't feel or expect any privacy whatsoever. It depends on where you do your business but generally speaking, wearing a hat calls attention to you. I think that if you want to dress differently from most people, as in wearing a fedora, you are going to be viewed differently than most people. I suppose you could hide your face from a security camera but why would any law abiding person need to do that? If banks are serious about security, they should just get to the point and quite banning hats or beards or overcoats and install security metal detectors so we have to empty our pockets to go into a bank [huh] (I love the ATM).

 

[Mr. 'H']

Speaking of privacy, a colleague recently showed me this.

Is this a spoof?

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