hat questions

[6StringShooter]

Well this has proved to be a really active message board :eusa_clap which I did not expect! I figured I'd come right out and say (like I did in my previous post) that I'd really like to start wearing hats, but I have way too many questions and I don't want to bog down the board with them. Is there a crash course out there online somewhere? My questions are to the effect of "what (if any) is a 'typical' or 'classic' fedora brim size", "how do you determine quality", "how much does a good quality felt hat usually cost", etc. I'm sure there are some previous posts archived in here somewhere but I wouldn't know how to access them.

 

[SinatraStyle]

Welcome, Shooter.

I've seen a couple of your previous posts...it's good to see you jumping in. One of the best ways to find information is to use the "search" function. Just click on the "search" button on the tool bar at the top of the screen and type in what you are looking for. I recommend doing typing in "newbie" to start.

Another option is to simply scroll through the threads in the hat forum and click on titles that look interesting. This is what I did when I joined. I started in the hats forum and eventually stumbled into the other sections. There is a ton of useful information in the old threads.

Don't hesitate to post and ask questions. You wil get many different responses; some pointing to old threads and some with new insight.

Cheers

 

[SinatraStyle]

The questions that you asked could each easily start new threads, and probably have in the past.

To touch on just one of your questions, the quality of the hat depends on the material and how it was made. The best materials for felt hats are fur felts: beaver, nutria, rabbit, or blends of these materials. However, these materials tend to be more expensive. Wool felt is a cheaper alternative, and may be a good choice if you are looking for an inexpensive start to hat wearing. However, the quality is not as high as fur felt, so wool tends not to last very long in the rain/snow. There are many threads here that discuss this. As a general rule, the price transition from wool to felt is around the $60.00 mark for a new hat.

My personal suggestions is, if possible, go to a hat shop and try on different styles of hats-try on hats with different dimensions to find what fits your face and personality the best. You then have the option of buying a new hat at that shop, or going online to purchase a "used" hat. Ebay has a lot of vintage hats, which tend to be of higher quality than new hats. Also, check out antique shops and Goodwill/Salvation Army type stores.

I'm sure that others will chime in as well, so I'll stop here.

 

[John in Covina]

See the Sticky!

6!

At the top of the Hat threads are a couple of sticky threads that are like FAQ files. Felt Hat Basics, Hat Creases & Making a new hat will have some good info to help get you up to speed.

Miller hats has 2 sections about matching you to a hat and color matches.
Here is one, once there you can find the other under Hat Decisions.
http://www.millerhats.com/hatcare_index/hatfaces.html

In the end, if you can find a local hat shop, go and try on a bunch to see what you are happy with, I also would suggest, if you have a suit or style that you are trying to match the hat to, wear it when you go.

I favor medium to wide brims to fit my face, so stingy brims don't do well with the exception of a straw Dobbs Rouge that is alright.

So you have to try on a bunch to see what is right for you. Also, if your budget will allow try to get fur felt as it will last longer and hold up better. If your budget says no, then just know that if you get a wool felt, you can consider it your "Starter" hat and if you like it, you'll probably go on to buy other hats.

If there are no Hat Shops nearby see if there is a Burlington Coat Factory. They can have mostly wool felt but occassionally a fur felt from Hoeckel, I think they are Czech factory. I got a Brown one that is pretty nice for the $$. Once you get familiar with terms and such you can try Antique stores Thrift and Second Hand shops or Ebay to look for pre-owned and vintage if you like.

I am going to put up my what to do to sell on Ebay essey next post.
Sincere best wishes in your search,

 

[John in Covina]

Pre-owned Hats What to look for Buyer or Seller

Version 3

Men’s Dress Hats, Questions for the Seller & Buyer!

There are a variety of styles of hats that fall under the category of Men’s Dress hats. The most famous is the FEDORA, which has wide latitudes and parameters for dimensions yet still falls under the description. Your best bet is to do some research visiting online stores to get a good description and look at pictures to match up with the hat you’re selling. Still, “Fedora” is a much misused term with sellers calling all sorts of men’s hats, a ‘fedora’ that are not. HOMBURGS are also in the mix and are similar to a fedora but the especially the brim and sometimes the crown are shaped differently. BOWLERS, DERBIES, TOP HATS, PORK PIES, ALPINE and STINGY BRIMS are the usual suspects that round out those normally found in men’s dress hats.

First off, the best of these hats are made of fur felt, such as nutria, beaver, rabbit or a blend of these. Occasionally, you may find an exotic fur used in the felt like chinchilla. If you are positive of the content, please list it, exotic fur felt can be quite desirable. Also, there are some well made hats that contain synthetic materials that were blended with real fur to make the felt. The dress hat has a relative in Western hats, both using fur felt bodies to make the hat. Western hats often have different beaver contents are noted as X’s, with the idea that more X’s are better felts. Although wool felt hats can be well made and serviceable, fur felt is generally noted as a better quality.

The quality of the felt may allow for cleaning and re-blocking plus re-sizing sometimes but these are moderate to expensive restorations when done by professionals. The cleaning and restoration of hats were once available in most towns and cities. Now there are only a small number of hatters and shops prepared to do this work. Amateurs should consider many repairs in the realm of pros only, unless they have many hats to practice on to get the experience. Some defects are not repairable or extremely difficult to do such as holes or divots in the felt. Holes can come from too much improper handling and the dreaded “moth bites.” Moth larva may munch on the felt creating small holes and divot like tracks along the surface of the felt. Moth balls or flakes or even cedar blocks should be utilized in the storage area to keep these destructive pests away from your quality hats. Any holes or divots need to be described and shown in photos if possible. Dirt, dust, stains, smudges, or damages to the surface again must be described and shown in photos. Dust and dirt may be cleaned by a knowledgeable person, but should not be done by the untrained as the felt can be quickly and irreversibly damaged. Spots and stains are not always removable and again should be noted and photographed.

Smells or odors should be noted, most can be removed by cleaning, although just a good an airing out may work. Failing that the hat may be placed in a big plastic bag with a box of baking soda like the refrigerator odor removal type for about a week. Don’t get that baking soda on the hat though!

Always try to show pictures of the details of the imprints on the sweatband and the liner. Careful checking under the sweatband may reveal tags with codes that are of interest to the collector. The style of crests and the sweat band imprints can often be used to find the era of manufacture. Often a store imprint is there on the sweat band which can add interest. Occasionally an actual date may be revealed and that is good detective work to the delight of the collector. Be sure to include all of the liner, sweatband imprints and tag information in your written description! Be as accurate and complete in your description as you can. If you can do “macro” or close up pictures of these details that clearly show them all the better, it will help sell the hat.

Take clear and focused pictures from every conceivable angle: outside: top, bottom, front back and both sides. Inside: close-ups of any imprints and details. The box, if you have a box, can be a generic hat box or a box that is specific to your hat or in can be totally unrelated. Still, describe fully and accurately and photograph, list the box information and photos at the end of the ad. Try to describe the colors of the hat and the box, as color pictures doesn’t always render correctly on the computer monitor. Fuzzy pictures are a detriment and a headache, and buyers often feel it is a ploy to try to hide defects. Also do not clutter the picture with other items or try to be artsy. Try using a plain background such as a solid light colored blanket, table cloth or sheet. Sometimes you can prop up a hat to effectively show the curl of the brim. Try to refrain from cutesy posing like using the dog or your toddler with the hat, it distracts and detracts from the hat. By concentrating on the hat in your description and photos, you do the buyer a big favor.

Measurements and dimensions are critical to the style and size of a man’s hat so be prepared to measure! Inches with fractions works best but metric can be worked out for most buyers. Describe the Crown & give height front and rear. Describe the brim, as to the WIDTH. Does it curve up or down or both? Please measure width from the base of the crown, at or near where the bottom of the ribbon or band is, and out to the edge. Also note, some hats are wider at the front and the rear than the sides, you may wish to measure all of these sections to be sure.

Good pictures of the ribbon and the bow are essential too! Also the edge of the brim maybe worked in a variety of ways such as raw, bound, stitched, folded and pressed all of which are of interest to the collector or user. Sometimes you may find a button with a string or cord attached to the hat. This is referred to as a Wind Trolley, and by other names. It attached the hat to the man to keep it from being blown away and lost.

Even if you find a size tag, note that old and unworn hats tend to shrink, so you should double check and list the ACTUAL SIZE of a hat! Please, measure the CIRCUMFRENCE of the hat, INSIDE, all the way AROUND the SWEAT BAND in inches to nearest fraction of an inch. If you do not have a cloth tape measure, then use a piece of string. Or make a paper tape and read the measured string or paper tape against tape measure or yard stick. Here is a conversion chart for converting Inches to US sizes:

INCHES US Size Metric
21” = size 6-5/8 = 53 cm
21-1/2” = size 6-3/4 = 54 cm
21-3/4” = size 6-7/8 = 55 cm
22” = size 7 = 56 cm
22-1/2” = size 7-1/8 = 57 cm
22-3/4” = size 7-1/4 = 58 cm
23” = size 7-3/8 = 59 cm
23-1/2” = size 7-1/2 = 60 cm
24” = size 7-5/8 = 61 cm
24-3/8” = size 7-3/4 = 62 cm
24-7/8” = size 7-7/8 = 63 cm
25-1/8” = size 8 = 63 cm

Also the size tag may mention a shape type like LONG OVAL which is a specific shape to match a head shape. This is key information to be listed!

A good, complete, and accurate description, noting all the details, along with clear pictures will bring you a better chance for a good sale.

In the ITEM TITLE you should consider first listing the following:
STYLE, MAKER, MODEL, COLOR, SIZE and then some sales pitch.
These first five items will help more to sell the hat by allowing the collector find your treasure quickly and easily.

Example: Fedora Stetson Playboy Grey 7-7/8 Film Noir very clean!

Again, the more details in your write up you can accurately list the better the chance to sell. The more honestly and accurately you describe the hat including faults, the more likely you will NOT have an angry customer looking to return the hat as misrepresented in the listings. Collectors may be looking for certain specific details which are always good to publish in the Question and Answer area to help all the buyers. It is not privileged information, you as the seller, should use all information at your disposal to help collectors find and select your hat.

If you don’t know the actual age of the hat, don’t guess, unless you care to expound on why you think it is of a certain age. Many hats made in the 60’s and later are listed erroneously as much earlier manufacture, styles have been re-issued so style does not always indicate age.

Damaged hats may be restorable, our hatters can do some remarkable and rather astonishing restorations but they are labors of love, time consuming and of great expense. That said, rare and desirable models may suggest a complete rebuild to revive a notable hat. Even a damaged or dirty hat can be worth listing.

Happy selling and good luck with your hat auction.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Version 3

Men’s Dress Hats, Questions for the Seller & Buyer!

Happy selling and good luck with your hat auction.

John,

OUTSTANDING POST!


Very useful information--it ought to be posted on eBay for the sellers! I'll use it myself. (But then, it might cut down on the number of bad auction posts that result in great deals for us!)

Thanks!
Tom

 

[6StringShooter]

thanks so much for the great info!! I found a ton of useful stuff under the "newbie" search...thanks again!

 

[WideBrimm]

Burlington Coat Factory

If there are no Hat Shops nearby see if there is a Burlington Coat Factory. They can have mostly wool felt but occassionally a fur felt from Hoeckel, I think they are Czech factory. I got a Brown one that is pretty nice for the $$. Once you get familiar with terms and such you can try Antique stores Thrift and Second Hand shops or Ebay to look for pre-owned and vintage if you like.

Over the weekend I bought a couple of Czech fedoras at the Burlington Coat Factory. One a loden grey, the other a brown. High crowns, wide (3-1/4") brim, with pinch front. Only $16 each. Should be good for everyday wear.

 

[John in Covina]

You may want to look at the websites for a couple of the vendors here, Aaron Hats and The Fedora Store, and Bencraft Hatters. There is a Vendors section on the Lounge homepage or click on the top banner ads. There are pictures upon pictures of all kinds of hats, styles, prices, brands, all with descriptions. Who knows, you may decide to order one. I was lucky, I was looking for a particular type of hat before Christmas and found it in the clearance section for $10.00. It arrived before the week was out. I visit Gainesville with my mom and there really are no local hat shops to go and try on hats, sad to say.

***********
This is true, we have some great guys that support the Lounge and they are worth supporting back. Plus if you call they are very helpful, let them know that you are a Lounger, It helps them know that their support is appreciated.
:eusa_clap
John

 

[feltfan]

John,

Great post. I hope it gets pulled out as a sticky for this forum.

But I'm much more curious about what kind of coffee you've
been drinking lately... lol