Goat or cowhide for winter?

[jojothenorthstar]

Out of curiosity, what's keeping you from considering another MA-1/B-15 jacket?

i am looking for another b-15 in leather to replace it actually. I just wanted to get something higher quality that will last and needed some opinions.

I was able to find out that my first one was fully cotton lined inside except for the sleeves

 

[Aloysius]

i am looking for another b-15 in leather to replace it actually. I just wanted to get something higher quality that will last and needed some opinions.

I was able to find out that my first one was fully cotton lined inside except for the sleeves

Fully cotton lined? Usually the cotton batting on them (my own included) is a wool/cotton blend.

Buzz Rickson's makes several like that, of excellent quality.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

Fully cotton lined? Usually the cotton batting on them (my own included) is a wool/cotton blend.

Buzz Rickson's makes several like that, of excellent quality.

The tag said 100% cotton

also thanks for that name, i never heard of them before. going to check it out

 

[Aloysius]

The tag said 100% cotton

also thanks for that name, i never heard of them before. going to check it out

I think it might be a case of a mistaken tag (even the lightweight versions were a 20% wool blend). I've run into those even at places like Turnbull & Asser.

They're a Japanese brand that specializes in repros of military clothing, especially jackets. Their original claim to fame was making excellent MA-1s and B-15s, so you'd be in good hands.

 

[jojothenorthstar]

I think it might be a case of a mistaken tag (even the lightweight versions were a 20% wool blend). I've run into those even at places like Turnbull & Asser.

They're a Japanese brand that specializes in repros of military clothing, especially jackets. Their original claim to fame was making excellent MA-1s and B-15s, so you'd be in good hands.

thanks for the informative reply! it's quite old and there's only a 'genuine' leather tag on it, so it's likely not from somebody super reputable

 

[Canuck Panda]

i already said i had a cotton lined bomber and never felt a shred of cold even on the coldest days. what you're suggesting is MASSIVE overkill

Yes, over built indeed. If a jacket got too hot, can unzip to cool down. If a jacket isn’t warm enough on its own, then pray for heated spaces near by.

Heres another potential overbuilt spec:

jacket shell material, 2oz acrylic coated goat or horse or kangaroo, going for thinnest and strongest.

jacket lining material, 12oz worsted wool, for when it gets wet and you can still feel warm with wool but not others, and worsted so it pills less.

jacket zip out lining material, quilted nylon, with primaloft filling. Quilted and zip out, so when it isn’t that cold, zip it out and wrap it around the waist. And maybe in bright orange nylon for visibility.

if we’re going to extend the wear and tear life expectancy, we’ve gotta fix those wool cuffs and bands, and replace them with leather so they’re maintenance free. And put the knits on the zip out liner, storm cuffs so to speak.

last but not least, a big wide snap on mouton collar, that when flipped up, can cover the face like balaclava. Or can take this even one step further and make it a zipper hood and get coverage for the entire head.

so essentially this cold smashing monster went from b15 to chp…. this could be standard issue for all bush pilots up north. -35 here we come…

 

[AeroFan_07]

i already said i had a cotton lined bomber and never felt a shred of cold even on the coldest days. what you're suggesting is MASSIVE overkill

There is no such thing as over-kill here. I would far rather be a little warm, and stay warm for longer especially in windy conditions, then be cool/cold and get colder quicker. However I agree having choices is optimal.

Everyone has different body heat needs and sensitivity. My hands get rather cold quickly on a 50F day with a breeze, however often with the layers in a glove (liner/wool glove and leather outer) get rather hot in -10F with just a bit of cardio exercise.

Perhaps more relevant to this question & to help us out a little more here, what's the intended activity level in the jacket? General use - into out of the car, into stores, to the gym etc? Or more outside working, hiking, shoveling, walking & skiing cross country, etc?

I have found no meaningful difference in perceived heat retention between cowhide, horsehide, or goatskin. What I have noticed is a tendency of certain leathers to really stiffen up - Horween Chromexcel Horse & Steerhide, for example, due to the high wax contents in these leathers, gets stiff as a board outside rapidly under 30F. I will not even leave a jacket with that leather in my car as it gets so stiff rapidly. I would avoid those types.

I would also ask - your old jacket - what is it lined with? (under the inner lining itself?) I would have to think it has a poly or cotton inner-lining that you cannot see unless there are holes in the lining.

On edit - clarified Horween details.

 

[Edward]

Everyone has different body heat needs and sensitivity. My hands get rather cold quickly on a 50F day with a breeze, however often with the layers in a glove (liner/wool glove and leather outer) get rather hot in -10F with just a bit of cardio exercise.

This is absolutely the key here. Every time these discussions come up, there's a lot of commentary that deals in absolutes and assumed norms - but we're all different. Plenty of folks will tell you an Irvin or a B3 is "too warm" for London - I've worn both over the years rather a lot from November through early February, and always found them great. (Of course, I use public transport, don't own a car, and only take a taxi once in a blue moon - I think the last time I was in a cab might be over a year ago now; closer two years since I was last in a private car.)

Aside from shearling, in depth of Winter cold I like a sturdy wool overcoat, ideally one that drops to below my calf muscles, about 8"-10" above the ground. I do somewhere still have an old leather trenchcoat, knee-length. No idea of age - possibly 50s, but it's warm due to a thick, moleskin lining, and the best thing I ever owned for rain - just ran right off it. It had a label inside that implied it might have been something to do with the French fire service, I must dig it out... I would like at some point over the next few years to pick up a couple of Aero leathers for colder weather. I like the Aero Wilderness (goat, wool-batting quilted lining), and the Hudson (blanket lining), also the Thunder Bay (shearling lining) in jackets. I've also for a long time fancied a Barnstormer with a Winter lining. Most probably the blanket lining as I'd be planning to wear it over a suit, though if I was ever lucky enough to be in a position to spend a chunk of the Winter in NYC, the shearling lined version would have a strong appeal.

Funny thing, my biggest gripe about getting older is I was looking forward to feeling the cold more, but if anything I'm finding it's the heat is getting harder and harder to deal with every year...

 

[AeroFan_07]

Edward said --Funny thing, my biggest gripe about getting older is I was looking forward to feeling the cold more, but if anything I'm finding it's the heat is getting harder and harder to deal with every year...

Golly that could be it's own thread Edward! Most people in the US want to move south to be in the warmth. I note more cold sensitivity and flexibility loss in the cold, but otherwise find it easier than hot & humid. Key being the humidity....

 

[Guppy]

Leather will block wind and rain (if properly treated) but has little to no insulating value. What you wear under the shell is what will determine how warm you feel in cold weather.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Turns out there's a scholarly article that relates to this subject, not sure if it's helpful but interesting nonetheless.

https://aqeic.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/v63N3_02.pdf

 

[Will Zach]

Turns out there's a scholarly article that relates to this subject, not sure if it's helpful but interesting nonetheless.

https://aqeic.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/v63N3_02.pdf

Slam. Dunk.