G-1 repro choice

[Creeping Past]

Cooper or Alpha? Or other?

Wotcha reckon?

 

[H.Johnson]

Mr. Past

It surely depends what you seek in such a reproduction, what model of G-1 you are seeking and what price you expect to pay.

The point that I would make is that the newer the 'issue' G-1, the less there seems to be to distinguish it from reproductions (including price and availability) to the extent that it is hard to choose between one and the other in any terms. In fact, original surplus E series jackets are often cheaper that the reproductions...

If, however, you want a reproduction of an earlier G-1 (before the D series) neither of the above would spring immediately to mind (my mind at least). Since it is hardly worth owning one of the former (again, my opinion) I would not look at these two brands.

Just my opinion.

 

[aswatland]

H.J. is right. You would be better to buy an original from the 1950s-1960s than buy one of these two repro brands as it would be cheaper and the "real thing".

 

[Creeping Past]

Opinion is what I was after! Thanks.

I've seen a well-worn Cooper version up close and the leather looks good with some wear. But...

I can wait for a good 50s/60s one.

Ebay prices seem a bit steep, generally. Any suggestions about retail outlets for used items?

 

[Nighthawk]

^ Post a 'Wanted to Buy' in the Classifieds here on the forum. There may be someone willing to part with their jacket. Prices seem pretty fair in most Lounge transactions.

NH

 

[Creeping Past]

Nighthawk, thanks. This is why I'm still waiting. When action's required, I'll certainly think about it...

To 'Classifieds'!

 

[johnnyjohnny]

eBargain

Ebay prices seem a bit steep, generally. Any suggestions about retail outlets for used items?

having just spent the last weeeeeeeek (yes, it was longgg) on ebay buying, looking, and selling a new schott 184sm, and buying an in-new condition vanson mercury for $250, i must say prices on ebay are LOw...

now, prior to the latest econ mess, if you compared vintage g-1s in vintage e-clothing stores to those on ebay, they were like double the cost for the same thing...noW the gap has certainly grown

as for the concept of rePro g-1s, i'm not really sure what someone considers a 'repro'...especially when i hear cooper g-1s (not made anymore, out of business) called repros...those g-1s were made according to 80s/90s milspecs and purchased by u.s. naval personnel in accordance with their uniform guidelines...as well as by the rest of us...so, as a militarily usable and milspec piece of clothing, it was certainly more than repro...it iS the real thing, though semantically it can be called a repro, though it is just reproducing the mil specs

as for the new 'alpha' g-1 that comes in sizes s,m,l,xl,xxl, etc, and has no contract spec label, that is definitely a repro...it looks nice, but upon contacting a seller of alpha, they stated that it (and their new a-2) are definitely reproduction items for the civilian market and not made to any particular mil spec requirements, though they are beautiful jackets and probably meet or exceed mil spec guidelines...so that's what i'd call a repro--
along with pricey beauties as from lostworld, eastman, etc., etc....

which casts no aspersions...however, a lowly cooper with contract tag on it, as humble as it may have been, shouldn't in my bLoviated opinion be termed a repro any more than any other uniform wear that is meeting mil specs and is allowably purchasable for military wear by military regs

the 50s, 60s and 70s stuff might be from a more legendary heyday in some minds, but they were humble, not pricey pieces, as was the cooper, with misaligned patch pockets (yeah, even the martin lanes, etc), and a little short not just for ease of movement but also to save on leather costs

i'd say 80s/90s contract tagged (properly so, not just to complete the 'replica' look) on ebay are the deaL right now

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Look for a nice 50s-60s G1 with the genuine rusty mouton collar(be sure and get measurements!).
Just couldn't do any better,IMO..!
HD

 

[Atticus Finch]

Nighthawk, thanks. This is why I'm still waiting. When action's required, I'll certainly think about it...

To 'Classifieds'!

The price of an original G-1 is very dependent on its age, condition and size. For any given condition, the older and larger the G-1, the higher the price. When one is talking A,B, or C series, size 48 G-1s in good or very good condition, one is usually talking very big bucks. On the other hand, smaller jackets---42, 40 and 38---seem to be a dime a dozen right now.

Depending on what size jacket you wear, a good repro might be a better bet for you. I've never owned one, but I've always heard that Gibson and Barnes (Flightsuits) makes a great G-1 for the price.

AF

 

[johnnyjohnny]

Geeeee-1 HeLLuVa PRiCE TaG

i'll definitely second that info...if you happen to be a legit size 46 or bigger you may pay for that vintage g-1 on ebay (the following info is all ebay-related)...and if you wanna go back to the Apocalypse NoW daze of the 60s or before, you will pay a premium for anything that's not 'holy', in the sense of blessed by moths

worse, if you are a size 46 or 48 (me) and want a 50s/60s, you need to get uP to 2 sizes larger than you normally take...a size 46 50s/60s across the manufacturer board will likely be only 23" armpit to armpit, whereas a current g-1 size 46 (such as gibson barnes) will be just shy of 27" armpit to armpit

which means you'll be paying bux for that rusty collar, or that white "usn" on the collar back if you are over a size 44 or more...

i personally blew out my pocket book on a size 48 brill in B+ condition, that was only about 25" armpit to armpit...had moth eaten cuffs, but otherwise cool...and that went for about $220...luckily the seller stiffed mE...sold it offline to someone for more and refused the sale

now, if you go back in time further, and get a jacket with no leather or liner rips, only moth blessed in the cuffs and bottom, and no removed patches, you'll probably pay $250 to $350 for that 50s/60s in a size 44 or larger, which you again need to uPsize...under size 44 you may get the high $100s for a B+ oldie into the mid $200s

they are certainly the kewLest things around, and still suCHa deal when viewed in real terms, but compared to the other really nice condition g-1s from the 70s to 90s, you're probably paying an extra $100 to $150 on ebay...still underpriced and destined to catch uP

but then you'll have to weigh the fact that a gibson and barnes is $328 new, and they are rather amazing (i've had them on)...though they don't have the cache of truly being from the past

 

[Fletch]

I'm in your boat, johnny - too big to fit most of the originals out there. I settled on a good secondhand repro, an Aero AN-6552, size 46. This is the 1943-44 model with U.S. in yellow under the collar. Also has an eye-catching iridescent satin lining that appears either black or burgundy depending on the light.

 

[Creeping Past]

Ah, the size issue rears it's ugly head again.

As so often happens here, I'm pulled in the direction of authenticity by those urging me to buy vintage only (being where 'it' is at), only to find that, as I'd supposed all along, it'll cost the earth for a garment in my size. [huh]

Since price is being bandied about, maybe I'll just stump up for a repro M422A.

 

[H.Johnson]

As I understand it (from someone at Cooper) the firm used to do two versions of the G-1, one supplied to the military and one for sale to the public. In theory, all that distinguished them was the label. In fact, some people suspect there was a sort by quality - the better examples going to one destination, the less good ones to the other. If this is true, I wonder which was which?

Examples of original issue G-1 from all periods are so cheap at the moment that on price alone I wouldn't consider a reproduction. Wartime and immediate post-war USN jackets (AN-J-3a for example) can sometimes be found more cheaply that most second-hand modern reproductions. I recently acquired an unlabelled but probably WW2 AN-J-3a in essentially unissued condition (slight mothing of the knit parts and storage creases) for under 50GBP. I would say that these jackets are the bargain of the day, but my advice would be to avoid auction sites if you are price conscious.

In short, unless you really want to avoid an original jacket and particularly want a late model, I can't see why you'd even want to consider a repro or a D or E series issue jacket.

Another alternative - have you considered a similarly styled 'vintage' civilian jacket? Willis and Geiger and other 'issue' manufacturers also made civilian versions (usually in the immediate post-war period) that are essentially the same as the military jackets (sometimes the cut is a little more generous). They go for even less than the military equivalents and are often of better quality. I have a W&G that is a really excellent jacket.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Fanch]

I was in the USN 1967-1969 as a flight surgeon and was issued a USN G-1 in size 44, which was a snug fit, even at that time. Now, 40 years later, I am the same weight as then, although redistributed. About a year ago, I purchased a Cooper G-1 in size 46 and is a perfect fit (my usual jacket size is 44 long). In my opinion, the Cooper is as authenic as the G-1 that I was issued over 40 years ago. It is very unfortunate that Cooper is no longer in business. Later this year, I will be in San Diego and plan to visit Gibson & Barnes and will be very interested in looking at their jackets, which I ubderstand run somewhat large. Stay tuned!

 

[Creeping Past]

I'd be interested to hear your views on the Gibson & Barnes jackets, Fanch.

You've already added a useful point on 'issue fit'.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Cooper made E-series G-1s for the USN in the early nineties. The great thing about them is that they are all goatskin---at least I have never seen a cowhide Cooper. My only complaint about Cooper G-1s is their color. They are very dark seal---almost black. I generally prefer the warmer, browner tone of earlier G-1s.

This is my large self sporting a 1992 issued Cooper. The jacket is almost as dark as the black sweater I'm wearing beneath it.

AF

 

[Fanch]

Atticus Finch, your 90's Cooper G-1 looks like my current Cooper G-1. I recall my USN issued G-1 in the late 60's was also very dark brown with a very dark brown mouton collar, same as what I am now wearing. I have seen pics of lighter brown G-1's with rust colored mouton collars, although I have never owned such a jacket. Unfortunately, my USN issued G-1 was stolen in 1969.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

fLying the 'COOP'

Cooper, the firm used to do two versions of the G-1, one supplied to the military and one for sale to the public. In theory, all that distinguished them was the label

...my oLe forum pal johnson, might i add some info...indeed cooper made two versions, but like so many other manufacturers, including gibson and barnes, the only difference was no 'usn' on the windflap and side-entry pockets next to the patch pockets (not hidden)...just like gibson does today...i've seen them...

why anyone would want to get a civvy version of a military jacket is beyond me...if you are 'civic' minded, you can go over to uswings (name stix in my mouth) and buy their us coast guard issue jacket, a mil spec jacket made for coast guard personnel, but it does have hidden side entry pockets as this is allowable for our pals guarding the coast, hanging out in boats on the water...it says 'uscg' on the windflap...

i know, i have one i bought from uswings 8 years ago, and it was made by cooper (orchard made for uswings prior to cooper)...by the way, i'm selling mine as i've spent soooooo much money on other jackets lately, it's a size 46L...about 26" armpit to armpit, and 28" from back neck collar seam to the bottom...very little wear...about the only wear was on me while i was standing in for the actor who gets pulled out of a plane on the L.A. bridge in the movie "SWAT"...i do stand-in work along with bothering people here on the forum...it was a cold all-nighter in feb, and the jacket stood me well

as for gibson and barnes, i bought a brand new one off of ebay and it was iNCREDiBLE! size 46 reg was about the same size as my cooper 46L, except about an inch and a half shorter...which is how it's supposed to be...

i sent it back when i found out it had a personalization punched instead of the 'usn' on the windflap...the guy had got it on clearance new from gibson, where they sell personalized sizes and stuff...but after trying it on i knew that was a keeper...at some time i'll get another from gibson...i've talked with their patch maker and leather 'master' there, dave, simply the nicest guy who will chat on and on with you...as will all their sales people

anyway, let us know what way you go...

 

[H.Johnson]

The Cooper versions that we saw in the UK (mainly imported by Willabee and Ward) in the 1990s had a civilian 'eagle' label, USN piercing of the windflap and did not have side-entry pockets. Maybe the 'home' US versions (or more recent versions) are different.

...my oLe forum pal johnson, might i add some info...indeed cooper made two versions, but like so many other manufacturers, including gibson and barnes, the only difference was no 'usn' on the windflap and side-entry pockets next to the patch pockets (not hidden)...just like gibson does today...i've seen them...

 

[johnnyjohnny]

wHadddddya know???

strangely enough i just came across this pic of a u.s. civi version...and it is as you say, except it has a fuller fit around the middle, and side pockets...feast your eyes you landLubbers who eschew mil versions>>>