Freewheelers La Brea - Rude Black or Black Jack

[tenerific]

Might be able to score the La Brea in something other than their normal black on grey Rude Black leather.

I'm very on the fence about it so am wondering whether the more teacore like black jack is worth it, or whether I should stick with something like rude black.

You can see the brown coming through on the belt in this example -

 

[TREEMAN]

How much of an up-charge is the Black Jack ?

 

[tenerific]

Minimal all things considered

 

[Jin431]

advanced congratulations, I hope it will fit you well. I think maybe another consideration aside from the core color is how the leather actually wears but if it's similar in graining/weight/texture/finish/stiffness then it's all really visual and more importantly personal preference if you want to keep the jacket black or show wear/patina.

If you are a one jacket kind of guy then maybe the black jack version will give you more satisfaction in seeing how the leather show wear and evolve over time but it does mention it wears faster than the black vintage so that's another one to keep in mind.

 

[tenerific]

Yeah, the thing is, I'm new to this game. So, I've never owned a black/greycore jacket any substantial time. Theoretically I would think over time a grey core showing would kind of look bad, no? And that a brown core would look much better?

 

[Jin431]

Yeah, the thing is, I'm new to this game. So, I've never owned a black/greycore jacket any substantial time. Theoretically I would think over time a grey core showing would kind of look bad, no? And that a brown core would look much better?

hmmm I think it adds a certain appeal if it shows some browning on the elbow/forearm/cuff/shoulder area but those take years of heavy wear before they actually start to happen.

these jackets are chrome tanned not veg tanned and looks like one jacket has seen more wear than the other but it's what I have in my closet. Vintage Cals that's probably atleast 60 years old. the top one has a brown core and the bottom one has a blue grayish core as far as I can tell on the heavy contact areas and the wear is less noticeable.

I do have black core and brown core shinki but they are so brand new so there's really no wear to it yet. I also haven't handled the rude black and black jack leather they use but I'm sure it's premium stuff and your in for a treat. The black and brown vintage used on my Mulholland is very dense and heavy shinki HH that really moulds to the wearer.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I'd personally go with the brown core for a jacket like that, but you can't go wrong honestly.

 

[Aloysius]

If the top coat is fast ageing (which, from the description, it seems to be) I would go with the pure black.

Fading through to brown can be very attractive… when it's minimal. Fast-chipping top coats end up making a new jacket look more worn than an 80 year old one, which is ridiculous. The vintage examples in Tanaka books look newer than the Japanese "tea core" jackets I see people wearing for just a year.

 

[Will Zach]

^^
Fake patina. Bill Kelso does it as well with Liberty or Victory horsehide or whatever marketing term they came up with.

 

[Aloysius]

One week of wear on a fast fading repro and it’ll look older than Jin’s beautiful vintage jacket above.

 

[Kuro]

When I purchased my LaBrea, I was curious about the Black Jack version. This is what I learned.

Before I start, I am certain you will be happy with either descision!

1. Only one place offers Black Jack, from what I understand.
2. When I asked for feedback from another dealer that sold FW about Black Jack leather and that I was considering it, they mentioned only one guy has access to it, and they would not stock it if they could. The black fades too fast, from the seller's perspective or observations etc.
3. Combined with some patina photos of other Black Jack FW jackets, how it is described as fast wearing and seeing photos that represented this statement, the observation from the dealer I purchased from AND the fact that the latest 2019 batch that was available at the time I was making my decision was basically brown, not red (I was interested for the red effect, not brown, previous editions were very much red).

I passed on the Black Jack opportunity and went Rude Black. I will say this though. If the Black Jack that was available when I was making the same decision as you was red and not brown, I may have gone for the Black Jack instead. Even though I was not a fan of the fast fade of the black easily rubbing off, I could have been happy with the red tones. But not brown, which cemented my decision to go with Rude Black.

 

[Kuro]

Here are some photos of what I am referring to red vs brown. In earlier black jack editions, I could see the red show through on some stitch holes, it was a prominent not seen often color. Sadly all the photos of 2019 jackets were not red.

 

[Cyber Lip]

I like brown or red wear-through with a black jacket, but I hate the idea of it being made to wear through quickly. I'd hate that

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I wonder how fast some of you think tea core leather fades on some of these jackets. I have owned several tea core Shinki jackets and the tea core has been incredibly slow to develop, even on jackets that I have worn quite a lot.

 

[TheBigEraser]

My Black Jack La Brea, 2019 version, after half year. Not heavy use. Tried my best to show the real tone in the photos.

Personally I pick Black Jack over Rude Black as it simply offers me much more fun to see the jacket developing more visible personal wear remarks. It feels mine and satisfies me when I look at it everytime. I need to wear business/business casual on my work days so the chance of wearing leather jacket is actually quite limited. I would only worry about "too fast aging" if you plan to rock the same jacket like 3 - 4 days per week.

And I'd be honest from money perspective. Black Jack La Brea values more than Rude Black La Brea on second hand market simply because of the rarity, in case that jacket unfortunately doesn't fit for you and your dealer doesn't accept return. "I don't acquire jackets for its resell value" I know, I know, but that’s what happening actually on the market at this moment.

 

[Aloysius]

I wonder how fast some of you think tea core leather fades on some of these jackets. I have owned several tea core Shinki jackets and the tea core has been incredibly slow to develop, even on jackets that I have worn quite a lot.

I think the sheer amount of outerwear you own probably plays a role here. It also depends on what you mean by ‘tea core’. If you mean any leather that has a pigment finish, then no, it doesn’t necessarily wear down quickly.

The fast-aging stuff that many repro brands favor, on the other hand, is a different story. I have seen months-old “tea core” jackets that look older than hard worn, decades old jackets. Like fast-fading denim, it’s a parody of actual aging and wear.

I also dislike the constant suggestion by fans of the fast-wearing stuff that other types of leather don’t patina. By that logic, the incredible leathers on John Lobb and Edward Green shoes are inferior to a CXL boot. There is far more to patina than the flaking away of a pigment finish.

Such people often seem to think that all leather from outside Japan is inferior, which is total nonsense. There are many, many sources of excellent leather, most of which are not on the radar of workwear fans.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I think the sheer amount of outerwear you own probably plays a role here. It also depends on what you mean by ‘tea core’. If you mean any leather that has a pigment finish, then no, it doesn’t necessarily wear down quickly.

The fast-aging stuff that many repro brands favor, on the other hand, is a different story. I have seen months-old “tea core” jackets that look older than hard worn, decades old jackets. Like fast-fading denim, it’s a parody of actual aging and wear.

I also dislike the constant suggestion by fans of the fast-wearing stuff that other types of leather don’t patina. By that logic, the incredible leathers on John Lobb and Edward Green shoes are inferior to a CXL boot. There is far more to patina than the flaking away of a pigment finish.

Such people often seem to think that all leather from outside Japan is inferior, which is total nonsense. There are many, many sources of excellent leather, most of which are not on the radar of workwear fans.

Well let's clear up a couple of things first.

1. I think CXL is overrated as all hell and isn't that great. I try to avoid CXL at all costs.

2. It does seem like there are different types or "levels" of tea core. I think I only have one super "fast" aging tea core jacket and it's not even from Japan or made with Japanese leather. My current teacore Freewheelers jacket is aging quite slowly. I've worn it at least 150 times and while the top coat has come off in some places, you can hardly tell in most photos.

3. I agree that there are many other great leathers. My second favorite leather in the world after Shinki is Badalassi Carlo Minerva from Italy. This whole discussion has included tea core leather that isn't just Japanese. I'm just mentioning it because I personally have very little experience with tea core leather that isn't Japanese. My fairly new Mister Freedom Campus Stallion is my first one.

4. Patina is the wrong word for leather aging and it actually bugs me that it's become part of the lexicon. Patina is a layer that forms on top of leather. It is additive. "Patina" used incorrectly to describe leather aging is usually subtractive and simply transformative. So yes, it's weird that a lot of people view "patina" as just tea core chipping away. There is so much more to great leather than that. I agree with you entirely there. My favorite jacket leather of all time is the leather on my Freewheelers Caboose which hasn't chipped away in terms of "tea core" much, but it has changed in color and almost marbled in a way in some areas.

 

[Harris HTM]

Patina is the wrong word for leather aging and it actually bugs me that it's become part of the lexicon. Patina is a layer that forms on top of leather. It is additive. "Patina" used incorrectly to describe leather aging is usually subtractive and simply transformative. So yes, it's weird that a lot of people view "patina" as just tea core chipping away.

+1. It seems that still people use the term "patina" for wear marks.
The "dull" areas on the CXL jacket on the right is "patina".
The top layer chipping off at the cuff of the same jacket at the photo below is "wear".

 

[dudewuttheheck]

+1. It seems that still people use the term "patina" for wear marks.
The "dull" areas on the CXL jacket on the right is "patina".
The top layer chipping off at the cuff of the same jacket at the photo below is "wear".
View attachment 377355 View attachment 377356

Yeah. It's just an easy catchall word that has now entered the lexicon unfortunately. I still try to avoid using it as much as possible because it is incorrect. People generally go with what is easier to say rather than what is accurate unfortunately.

 

[TheBigEraser]

@dudewuttheheck @Harris HTM thanks for the language tips. I have edited my response.