Filson coats - anyone?

[bobm]

Brands like Filson and Viberg boots are in a weird position. They'd probably like to stick with their original direction and customer base, but not only do they have to keep the doors open, but they also have OPPORTUNITY staring them in the face. Potential profit on a larger scale. Both their notorious quality and old school traditions are exactly what gives a brand that glow to the hipsters. I don't really like that term: hipsters. I use it. I get it. But there's more going on there. Barbour has done it too. I'm sure countless others as well. Slimmer, tailored fits with fashion in mind rather than utilitarian garments of high quality. I can't really blame a young person for wanting good quality stuff, even if they never put it through the paces. Quality stuff is cool. In a world of poor quality and planned obsolescence, it's even cooler.

I think we are basically on the same pager here - as I mentioned - this is something they need to do. I don't see the term hipster as derogatory at all and if you ever take a walk through SOHO, NOHO, Greenpoint, Williamsburg, etc, etc, that's about about half of what the stores the stores and residents are. In the urban and suburban areas, it's in the gentrified neighborhoods, examples mentioned above (literally and figuratively) about as far from Filson's original - or at least until the last 20 or so years or so, that Filson is very popular.

Again - kudos to Filson for expanding their base. Hey, I like Filson obviously too for the reasons you mentioned. I generally prefer the retro and time tested clothing rather than high techish or modern looks and I am just an old suburban guy who appreciates Filson. My bugaboo with Filson is that (example in my earlier post) they have taken some of their year round staples, changed a color/pattern, kicked up the price and made them limited editions. And I would like to see more products made in the good ol' USA.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I hear you. If you want to get frustrated. Google and dig around and see how many other products they make just for other markets. I remember finding some very cool Filson jackets made just for the Italian market. Again, this is nothing new. Plenty of companies make things only for the Japanese market. But if you're really into a brand, it's annoying. All this "limited edition" crap creates anxiety for buyers, causing them to make quick purchases rather than exploring their options and maybe even cooling down and not purchasing at all. If a company can sell out of a jacket run in days or months, it's best for them. They don't have to sit on investment, wait on being paid for store invoices, pay for warehouse space, etc. It's quick capital turnaround.

Limited editions play right into our culture of short attentions spans. Fast. Everything fast. Buy a new phone every year or so because technology advancement is fast. Have the latest gadget. Instantly buy that limited edition pair of jeans or jacket or vinyl record or X, Y, or Z. It really messes with my mind. I sit on decisions. I like to contemplate my purchases and weigh options. That approach can be problematic nowadays.

 

[belfastboy]

I have noticed this the last couple years as well and it is a damn shame. I just picked up a double Mackinaw in the red and black buffalo plaid a couple weeks ago off eBay for under $300. The seller estimates that it was purchased in the mid 90s but it has spent its entire life in a closet and it is pristine, practically brand new. If Filson keeps on raising prices the way they are I will stick with eBay.

A few years ago I picked up a Filson Mackinaw off the Bay for $100. It is in the brilliant blue/black Buffalo plaid, and is pristine. I have a collection of bespoke leather jackets and this Filson jacket is complimented about 10 times more often than any of my leathers. But yeh, I am not likely to put out full retail for any of their products.

 

[bobm]

Ok, this is true. I went shopping at my local Kings Supermarket this afternoon in Montclair NJ. Man my age comes up to me and asks about the jacket I'm wearing - Wool Packer Coat - the one in my avatar. He's familiar with Filson and was actually wearing an older Filson Wool shirt. He asked me how old was my coat - I said about 5 years. He was looking to get one in my color - but I said looks like they have stopped making that color (at least this year) and we spoke a few more minutes lamenting the fact that this coat is now a limited edition item, rather than an old stable and may be sold out for the season.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

You know...this limited edition thing bugs me because it is manipulative. Manipulation has become expected and dismissed. It's a real jading. It's no different than how we've become indifferent to not having much control over our own privacy. Limited edition clothing to go back to that anxiety thing. Stores picking lighting, colors, placement, and whatnot to manipulate you into buying things you didn't know you wanted or needed. Yes, it comes down to personal responsibility, but that doesn't mean I can't be irked by the constant barrage of manipulation.

 

[Seb Lucas]

You know...this limited edition thing bugs me because it is manipulative. Manipulation has become expected and dismissed. It's a real jading. It's no different than how we've become indifferent to not having much control over our own privacy. Limited edition clothing to go back to that anxiety thing. Stores picking lighting, colors, placement, and whatnot to manipulate you into buying things you didn't know you wanted or needed. Yes, it comes down to personal responsibility, but that doesn't mean I can't be irked by the constant barrage of manipulation.

Kind of agree but manipulating customers is the whole point of marketing - we don't get to decide how debased or purile they can make it. The Hipster thing has splinter groups - kind of mainstream now and sometimes a form of virtue signalling through perceptions of quality and authenticity associated with brands or makers. "I have better gear than the poor, polyester clad slobs down at the mall." Maintaining this market's excitement by grubby ploys like the limited edition trope seems par for the course.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Interesting discussion folks.

I am late to the discussion of Filson and their corporate marketing strategy. In 2015 I recalled reading this article, https://www.fastcompany.com/3052088...its-118-year-legacy-to-plot-the-brands-future . It was the President and Creative Director speaking about one of the primary challenges they faced was for Filson to get it's story out. They spoke about not being a fashion brand, but a brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. I listened to the two speak in this article and others interviews given after the time of purchase and a leadership transition. This has been a common strategy enacted by Filson management in the past. I spent years in corp. retail top 5 senior management and know firsthand how difficult it is to keep the content and brand strategy clear and focused. Filson customers are passionate. Filson is not intended for disposable income fashion shoppers. The Vice President of sales, Egler was quoted having said that (2012) that being a Filson customer is like being in a secret handshake club.

Quick company recap( as I understand it):
1897 Established in Seattle.
1970 Kohl's purchased. Expanded line of vintage items eschewing modern materials.
2005 Brentwood Associated purchased. (Casual wear was leveraged and womens line in 2008)
2012 Bedrock purchased. Manufacturing/retailing focus expanded.
2015 New CEO and some management changes.

You folks have hit on some of the mis-steps of the brand. On the strength side - The company is doing well in the brick/morter and digital world. The core product and innovative spins on core products I believe have been mostly done well. The retail space is hard and crowded and Filson remains vibrant in sales and appeal to it's core customers. Customer base has grown. Miststeps with sizing? Possibly with the S,M,L vs historic 36-44 sizing. Or was it wise to minimize the stock and selection? I do not know - my preference being for the historic sizing. The trend for Filson leisure shirts to be "trimmer" fitted? Not my fav and my attire budget has stayed away from these items. Fashion and coordinated item launches (Levis and others)? If it is sells, hats off - not my cup of tea.

The above is a lot of typing, by me, to say that Filson, IMO, has remained mostly true to its core brand /history and I appreciate that. Another outdoor brand that has done well in its core brand and ethos/morals in its outdoor space is Patagonia.

A brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. It is this sentence that has me reflecting on my using my Filson products. My family over 2 generations (my family are more recent immigrants to the US) has used the products. The appreciation for Filson has been across the generations. Articles of clothing have been passed down. I think of hauling wood for the cabin stove with wearing a passed down Filson Mackinaw as a teen as did my father and grandfather.

I hope I have added to this discussion. Back to the discussion. I will read with interest other posts.

Best, Eric -

BTW: Here is an interesting read about Clinton C. Filson who received the patent for a Cruiser shirt on March 3, 1914 - https://www.historylink.org/File/11151

 

[belfastboy]

Interesting discussion folks.

I am late to the discussion of Filson and their corporate marketing strategy. In 2015 I recalled reading this article, https://www.fastcompany.com/3052088...its-118-year-legacy-to-plot-the-brands-future . It was the President and Creative Director speaking about one of the primary challenges they faced was for Filson to get it's story out. They spoke about not being a fashion brand, but a brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. I listened to the two speak in this article and others interviews given after the time of purchase and a leadership transition. This has been a common strategy enacted by Filson management in the past. I spent years in corp. retail top 5 senior management and know firsthand how difficult it is to keep the content and brand strategy clear and focused. Filson customers are passionate. Filson is not intended for disposable income fashion shoppers. The Vice President of sales, Egler was quoted having said that (2012) that being a Filson customer is like being in a secret handshake club.

Quick company recap( as I understand it):
1897 Established in Seattle.
1970 Kohl's purchased. Expanded line of vintage items eschewing modern materials.
2005 Brentwood Associated purchased. (Casual wear was leveraged and womens line in 2008)
2012 Bedrock purchased. Manufacturing/retailing focus expanded.
2015 New CEO and some management changes.

You folks have hit on some of the mis-steps of the brand. On the strength side - The company is doing well in the brick/morter and digital world. The core product and innovative spins on core products I believe have been mostly done well. The retail space is hard and crowded and Filson remains vibrant in sales and appeal to it's core customers. Customer base has grown. Miststeps with sizing? Possibly with the S,M,L vs historic 36-44 sizing. Or was it wise to minimize the stock and selection? I do not know - my preference being for the historic sizing. The trend for Filson leisure shirts to be "trimmer" fitted? Not my fav and my attire budget has stayed away from these items. Fashion and coordinated item launches (Levis and others)? If it is sells, hats off - not my cup of tea.

The above is a lot of typing, by me, to say that Filson, IMO, has remained mostly true to its core brand /history and I appreciate that. Another outdoor brand that has done well in its core brand and ethos/morals in its outdoor space is Patagonia.

A brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. It is this sentence that has me reflecting on my using my Filson products. My family over 2 generations (my family are more recent immigrants to the US) has used the products. The appreciation for Filson has been across the generations. Articles of clothing have been passed down. I think of hauling wood for the cabin stove with wearing a passed down Filson Mackinaw as a teen as did my father and grandfather.

I hope I have added to this discussion. Back to the discussion. I will read with interest other posts.

Best, Eric -

BTW: Here is an interesting read about Clinton C. Filson who received the patent for a Cruiser shirt on March 3, 1914 - https://www.historylink.org/File/11151

Visiting the Filson flagship store in south Seattle is a real treat. It takes retail buying and elevates it into the realm of experience. I was tempted to buy after getting caught up in the 'experience' of it all but the price tickets were enough to shock me back into reality.

 

[Peter Mackin]

I bought a practically unworn double tin cloth packer from the forum a couple of years ago,,The worst jacket I ever bought to be honest.wasnt warm ,certainly wasn’t comfortable and more to the point it wasn’t even waterproof,,it was like a suit of armour.poor stitching etc,tried reproofing with qenuine filson proofing,nope didn’t work ,ended up selling it on,,wouldn’t want one if it was gifted,,some of their wool jackets look better,,but would need to see before ever bought a product from them again,

 

[belfastboy]

I bought a practically unworn double tin cloth packer from the forum a couple of years ago,,The worst jacket I ever bought to be honest.wasnt warm ,certainly wasn’t comfortable and more to the point it wasn’t even waterproof,,it was like a suit of armour.poor stitching etc,tried reproofing with qenuine filson proofing,nope didn’t work ,ended up selling it on,,wouldn’t want one if it was gifted,,some of their wool jackets look better,,but would need to see before ever bought a product from them again,

On a good note, spent a week in Glasgow mid October. Loved it, what a wonderful vibrant city.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Interesting discussion folks.

I am late to the discussion of Filson and their corporate marketing strategy. In 2015 I recalled reading this article, https://www.fastcompany.com/3052088...its-118-year-legacy-to-plot-the-brands-future . It was the President and Creative Director speaking about one of the primary challenges they faced was for Filson to get it's story out. They spoke about not being a fashion brand, but a brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. I listened to the two speak in this article and others interviews given after the time of purchase and a leadership transition. This has been a common strategy enacted by Filson management in the past. I spent years in corp. retail top 5 senior management and know firsthand how difficult it is to keep the content and brand strategy clear and focused. Filson customers are passionate. Filson is not intended for disposable income fashion shoppers. The Vice President of sales, Egler was quoted having said that (2012) that being a Filson customer is like being in a secret handshake club.

Quick company recap( as I understand it):
1897 Established in Seattle.
1970 Kohl's purchased. Expanded line of vintage items eschewing modern materials.
2005 Brentwood Associated purchased. (Casual wear was leveraged and womens line in 2008)
2012 Bedrock purchased. Manufacturing/retailing focus expanded.
2015 New CEO and some management changes.

You folks have hit on some of the mis-steps of the brand. On the strength side - The company is doing well in the brick/morter and digital world. The core product and innovative spins on core products I believe have been mostly done well. The retail space is hard and crowded and Filson remains vibrant in sales and appeal to it's core customers. Customer base has grown. Miststeps with sizing? Possibly with the S,M,L vs historic 36-44 sizing. Or was it wise to minimize the stock and selection? I do not know - my preference being for the historic sizing. The trend for Filson leisure shirts to be "trimmer" fitted? Not my fav and my attire budget has stayed away from these items. Fashion and coordinated item launches (Levis and others)? If it is sells, hats off - not my cup of tea.

The above is a lot of typing, by me, to say that Filson, IMO, has remained mostly true to its core brand /history and I appreciate that. Another outdoor brand that has done well in its core brand and ethos/morals in its outdoor space is Patagonia.

A brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. It is this sentence that has me reflecting on my using my Filson products. My family over 2 generations (my family are more recent immigrants to the US) has used the products. The appreciation for Filson has been across the generations. Articles of clothing have been passed down. I think of hauling wood for the cabin stove with wearing a passed down Filson Mackinaw as a teen as did my father and grandfather.

I hope I have added to this discussion. Back to the discussion. I will read with interest other posts.

Best, Eric -

BTW: Here is an interesting read about Clinton C. Filson who received the patent for a Cruiser shirt on March 3, 1914 - https://www.historylink.org/File/11151

Thanks for posting. Yes, Patagonia is a whole other discussion and world. People tend to hate their customer base and social status (like Sam's people hating Costco...gotta pick a team and declare loudly, ya know?), but for the most part (but in no perfect world or fashion), I wish more clothing companies took their cues from Patagonia. I don't own a single Patagonia piece of clothing. I do hunt for a couple things and would only buy them on the used market at steal prices (they don't make one of the items anymore). Wanted to be candid about my situation with them. However, I have worked with their customer service and was blown away by how they stood by their product and with no questions asked. Now that I said all that, it's the company I watch the most, and am generally, and genuinely, most impressed with in the clothing world. I'm sure they screw up. We've even talked about it on here (somewhere), but they know what they're doing.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I bought a practically unworn double tin cloth packer from the forum a couple of years ago,,The worst jacket I ever bought to be honest.wasnt warm ,certainly wasn’t comfortable and more to the point it wasn’t even waterproof,,it was like a suit of armour.poor stitching etc,tried reproofing with qenuine filson proofing,nope didn’t work ,ended up selling it on,,wouldn’t want one if it was gifted,,some of their wool jackets look better,,but would need to see before ever bought a product from them again,

I got a tin cloth Filson short cruiser jacket direct from their store and it was nothing remarkable.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I don't know how Filson wools are now, but they used to be nearly works of art in my eyes. And then you consider the price, and a person like me has a difficult time wearing them. I'm the type who likes the secondary market, but especially in the case of Filson, it has to be used for me to get over that.

I'm curious about the materials nowadays. I have nowhere to look at Filson to compare. Really heavy wool material (forget the weight where I'd consider that true heavyweight starting; 24oz or 28oz?) isn't made much. Even Pendleton's mill division only has an 85/15 or 80/20 blend available anymore. LL Bean's final big wools were also all 85/15, but I know they outsourced those garments from someone. They weren't made in-house.

 

[belfastboy]

I don't know how Filson wools are now, but they used to be nearly works of art in my eyes. And then you consider the price, and a person like me has a difficult time wearing them. I'm the type who likes the secondary market, but especially in the case of Filson, it has to be used for me to get over that.

I'm curious about the materials nowadays. I have nowhere to look at Filson to compare. Really heavy wool material (forget the weight where I'd consider that true heavyweight starting; 24oz or 28oz?) isn't made much. Even Pendleton's mill division only has an 85/15 or 80/20 blend available anymore. LL Bean's final big wools were also all 85/15, but I know they outsourced those garments from someone. They weren't made in-house.

I have wool Mackinaw jackets from Filson & Pendleton (100% wool, US origin), Woolrich US made, Pioneer Canadian made, (85/15), and to my untrained eye and hand can't really tell the difference between them. The Filson is every bit as scratchy as the others at probably at least twice the price when new. I love the colour of my blue/black buffalo plaid Filson but my favourite is the red/black Woolrich....it is a match for quality of sewing but has better features.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Woolrich has always been disrespected by many. A couple years ago when I was really shopping hard for wools, you could find a Woolrich cruiser (85/15 blend) for $15 on ebay. The lowest price I found of any cruiser in sight, even when compared to the cruisers from smaller, basically unknown wool mills. Now that red buffalo plaid is in fashion for this season, I suspect that isn't still true. I like Woolrich. A lot. At the time, $15 vs $100+ for a Filson. While I do consider the Filson better designed and of nicer wool, was it 7-10Xs a better jacket than a Woolrich. No.

 

[So33]

I got a tin cloth Filson short cruiser jacket direct from their store and it was nothing remarkable.

I found the tin cruiser works best for heavy brush i.e. Timber cruiser work.
Most clothing will shred to pieces when off the trail in my area of Washington state. With double tin, I can walk straight through the brush and nothing sticks, stabs or snags.
I wouldn't consider tin cloth as good material for street wear.

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^ Very accurate. I have done a good bit of trekking through dense forest in Northern Wisconsin, and Tin Cloth (oiled cotton, and possible waxed cotton) shrugs it off with no issue. It's heavy in weight compared to a Gore-tex jacket, you have to re-oil or wax it, it has to break in, but for the right conditions, it works and works well.

 

[So33]

Interesting discussion folks.

I am late to the discussion of Filson and their corporate marketing strategy. In 2015 I recalled reading this article, https://www.fastcompany.com/3052088...its-118-year-legacy-to-plot-the-brands-future . It was the President and Creative Director speaking about one of the primary challenges they faced was for Filson to get it's story out. They spoke about not being a fashion brand, but a brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. I listened to the two speak in this article and others interviews given after the time of purchase and a leadership transition. This has been a common strategy enacted by Filson management in the past. I spent years in corp. retail top 5 senior management and know firsthand how difficult it is to keep the content and brand strategy clear and focused. Filson customers are passionate. Filson is not intended for disposable income fashion shoppers. The Vice President of sales, Egler was quoted having said that (2012) that being a Filson customer is like being in a secret handshake club.

Quick company recap( as I understand it):
1897 Established in Seattle.
1970 Kohl's purchased. Expanded line of vintage items eschewing modern materials.
2005 Brentwood Associated purchased. (Casual wear was leveraged and womens line in 2008)
2012 Bedrock purchased. Manufacturing/retailing focus expanded.
2015 New CEO and some management changes.

You folks have hit on some of the mis-steps of the brand. On the strength side - The company is doing well in the brick/morter and digital world. The core product and innovative spins on core products I believe have been mostly done well. The retail space is hard and crowded and Filson remains vibrant in sales and appeal to it's core customers. Customer base has grown. Miststeps with sizing? Possibly with the S,M,L vs historic 36-44 sizing. Or was it wise to minimize the stock and selection? I do not know - my preference being for the historic sizing. The trend for Filson leisure shirts to be "trimmer" fitted? Not my fav and my attire budget has stayed away from these items. Fashion and coordinated item launches (Levis and others)? If it is sells, hats off - not my cup of tea.

The above is a lot of typing, by me, to say that Filson, IMO, has remained mostly true to its core brand /history and I appreciate that. Another outdoor brand that has done well in its core brand and ethos/morals in its outdoor space is Patagonia.

A brand that connects folks to the aura of outside and the adventure. It is this sentence that has me reflecting on my using my Filson products. My family over 2 generations (my family are more recent immigrants to the US) has used the products. The appreciation for Filson has been across the generations. Articles of clothing have been passed down. I think of hauling wood for the cabin stove with wearing a passed down Filson Mackinaw as a teen as did my father and grandfather.

I hope I have added to this discussion. Back to the discussion. I will read with interest other posts.

Best, Eric -

BTW: Here is an interesting read about Clinton C. Filson who received the patent for a Cruiser shirt on March 3, 1914 - https://www.historylink.org/File/11151

I think the Filson Mac is worthy of its own patent. With 24oz. Wool that is double thick on the back for 48oz. In the front with pockets from top to bottom making it double thick 48oz. It wears light in weight, warm and breathable. Comfortable in temperatures from 30's to 50's. The Double Mac triples the thickness over the back shoulders, double thickness over arms.

Filson catalog from 20 years ago were plain and underwhelming. The catalog's from 2012? Till now are works of art. They have reinvented their customer base away from work wear, while keeping the root product line.

I myself like the limited editions and collaboration products. Sourcing from small companies, bringing awareness to other traditional heritage products.

 

[AeroFan_07]

The Filson wool cruiser is simply put, a classic piece. It does not provide that "immediate" warmth of Down fill, or Poly fill. However it is a Working person's coat, and as such, the simple, thick wool breaths and lets moisture escape, so if a person was out in the forest cutting trees all day (think about the culture around the Pacific Northwest around 1900) it provided good warmth that was durable and did not cause the wearer to overheat. Overheat is the key - if you sweated through your clothes, or has to constantly remove and then take back up layers, it would not work very well.

Granted - there are limitations. I find wool very itchy, and both my cruiser and vest are indeed un-lined and quite itchy unless I have a good long-sleeve undershirt on. There again, the lining could sharply limit the breath-ability of the coat, defeating the purpose. Since we have so many options today, it is very easy to cast off a cruiser coat as a useless relic from the past. There is a lot more to it, and frankly seeing Filson's that are 50+ years old and still going strong gives me reason to think they may just know something about durability.

Going back a bit to 2016 when I started this thread, Bob J responded and I want to re-post a part of his original post that re-states my first paragraph:
Now, to respond to your question about them being too warm for anything above zero degrees f/-18c... The short answer is that that's not true AT ALL. I have had both the double mac and the single mac, and have always been impressed at what a WIDE range of temperatures and activity levels they were comfortable in. They have the perfect balance between breatheability and wind resistance. No matter how active you are, you never feel clammy in them. And, unlike fleece, they are good at keeping the wind out... the rain and snow too.

If I'm active, like taking a long walk, I found that it had to be below 50f/10c degrees to be comfortable in the double mac. But just sitting, like at a football game or something, it is comfortable up into the sixties f/teens and twenties c. And, like I said, you can easily take it down to below zero f/minus twenty c, with layers.

The single mac is amazingly versitile. Over just a tee shirt, you can wear it down into the forties, but also be comfortable not bothering to take it off indoors, like at the movie theater or mall.

 

[El Marro]

A few years ago I picked up a Filson Mackinaw off the Bay for $100. It is in the brilliant blue/black Buffalo plaid, and is pristine.

I just picked up a double mackinaw in this plaid off the bay as well. I may have to think about moving to a colder climate...