felt weight/thickness questions

[Joel Tunnah]

I'm no felt expert, but am I correct to assume that the 100% beaver felt that Art and Steve use for their hats is considered a heavy "winter weight" felt?

I ask because I notice in so many of your vintage hat pictures here that the creases and dents have a certain look to them that I can't seem to duplicate in my custom 100% beaver hats (not a complaint, just something I've noticed). Is this due to the thickness/density of the felt, or was some other type of fur used in a 1940's dress hat?

Can the 100% beaver be made in a "summer weight"?

How does the felt on say, a vintage Stetson Open Road, compare in thickness and weight to this modern 100% beaver?

Joel

 

[Stoney]

Joel,

I'll defer to Art and Steve about what their hat bodies consist of, but I think the primary difference you are seeing is due to the natural relaxng of the felt over time, with use, that has occured with the vintage hats. I would suspect that your hat will have to break in, the stiffener needs to loosen up, then it should be fine.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I have many custom made hats from various hatters most of which were sold as 100% beaver. Many of them are thinner than others,some more stiff and still others more pliable. The only thing that I can guess as to why they feel and act differently from the vintage hats is that the older hats were felted using a different process than how the raw bodies are made today. Perhaps the fur has changed,maybe the chemicals used in felting Sixty or Seventy years ago are now not available or considered unsafe like mercury. Also the demand for various felt weights must have something to do with its quality or variety.
I wish that I could have the same type of super thin felt that was used in the Twenties or Thirties but I won't hold me breath. The hatters today are making great hats with the best raw materials available to them.All we can do is keep pushing them to make better and better hats for us. Maybe if demand for a high quality summer weight felt is there that type of body will be made.

 

[Feraud]

Thin felt is available. I received a demo hat from Steve (Adventurebilt Hats) and it was exactly what I would like in a summer weight felt.
Is there a demand for a lightweight felt?

Comparing new made felt to vintage is almost like comparing apples and oranges. The fur quality and certain processes are different. My vintage Open Roads are 50-60 years old and reflect to the ravages of time we lovingly call "personality". I would expect a new made hat to endure plenty of wear and weather to develop the characteristics we see in vintage hats.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Joel, I can't speak for Steve but I think he uses the same weight body as I do. The three basic body weights used ( in general) are 120 gram, 90 gram, 70 gram with the 120 being winter weight, 90 medium, 70, summer. The only production body I am aware of in the summer weight is from Fepsa in Portugal and there are minimum orders of 15 lb ( approx 100 summer weight bodies) per color, so the investment is pretty substancial. Some hatters have made deals to buy the "overruns" and "seconds" from Fepsa but I won't use others mistakes or leftovers.
That said, myself & Gary White are working with Winchester to develop a 50 gram body for summer. I am expecting to get the prototype later this week to experiment with and if it works out well we'll be able to offer them soon.

Difference between modern & vintage felt aren't as major as it sometimes seems. The biggest difference is in the carroting process that today has to be done with chemicals other than mercury as I believe Douglas stated. Really, that's the biggest. Another is that most vintage hats not only are rabbit or blends, but over the years the felt has become "stable". Imagine that if felt were to be considered "alive", it takes time for it to "die". Once it does it reacts slightly differently than "fresh" felt. That's one of the big reasons I only use pure Beaver, because it reacts and feels closer to vintage than any other blend I've tried.

Also, remember that in 1940 there might have been 300,000 hatters to supply and there were uncountable other support industries all bidding to get the market share so choices were seemingly unlimited. With the near death of the industry choices have been depleted.

There are alot more answers and opinions to this question, most with some validity. I think just aging helps.

 

[Joel Tunnah]

Thanks for the replies guys. As usual, I've learned something here today!

Joel

 

[EricH]

"I think just aging helps." Art, I'm confused is this in regards to the felt or the hatter? But seriously folks, that light felt option sounds great. Will you be blocking that up on the usual suspects or can we expect some mixed style fedora/panama signature pieces? Eric (Great one more hat to get.)

 

[Rick Blaine]

I would be very greatful to be able to wear felt past April!
and how does one make those itty-bitty vent hole in the diamond pattern on either side of the crown?

 

[deanglen]

I would be very greatful to be able to wear felt past April!
and how does one make those itty-bitty vent hole in the diamond pattern on either side of the crown?

Yeah! I want to know how they do that, too. Scotrace suggested a punch tool from an auto supply store. I'm considering it, unless there's better way.

dean

 

[Art Fawcett]

"I think just aging helps." Art, I'm confused is this in regards to the felt or the hatter?

yes

or can we expect some mixed style fedora/panama signature pieces?

You're in trouble Eric..start searching the couch for change

how does one make those itty-bitty vent hole in the diamond pattern on either side of the crown?

I hate to admit it Rick, but I don't know. I've been told there is a stamping machine for that but how you line it up & get it right I've never seen. Any other hatters want to jump in? Jimmy, any experience with this?

 

[EricH]

From an engineers point of view, I would expect they had a stamping machine set up with the multi punch pin pattern and probably a matching die (or soft backing). I would also venture a guess that we don't see a lot of these due to the cost of making a mistake and the additional labor involved. Someone was kind enough to give me a beautiful Dobbs 20 with a cavanagh edge and gasp vent holes punched in the side. After I brushed away the tears, I gave it to a friend from Wisconsin (You have to live in this part of the country to understand this part) who wears it daily with a big grin and plaid pants, seriously.

 

[Feraud]

I wonder how much error would occur if a machine were set up to do this?
If I can dig up a punch pin I will experiment on punching out a pattern by hand. Shouldn't be too hard..

 

[WEEGEE]

Say What

EricH

or can we expect some mixed style fedora/panama signature pieces?

Art

You're in trouble Eric..start searching the couch for change

Very interesting!!!

 

[DOUGLAS]

I've been lucky to score several summer weight hats that are so thin ,so light a breeze will crease the felt. If the new experimental felt that Art is taking about is anything like what I have, we are in for a treat.