Engineer Boots, Harness Boots...

[bretron]

Too bad they didn't work out for you, we all were drooling over them across the forums. I would be interested my friend, if they fit on the large end of a size 10. But I do not believe that to be true from what I have read.

Thx man. It's been a hard pill to swallow. But I finally have settled on the fact that I'd be better off releasing myself from the frustration of wearing these: I am selling em because theres some slop in the heel lift department... (and theyre a total beast to get on/off).

 

[illumin8em]

^^^ same story with both my RRLs. I think these makers believe narrowing the boot shaft will make for a better fit, but the problem is with the volume of the boot from the instep to the back of the heel, kind of a diagonal line basically the same line as the strap placement which would leave one to believe the strap would alleviate the issue. It can, if pulled tight enough, but at the detriment of circulation of blood for your foot.

 

[jimmer_5]

Thx man. It's been a hard pill to swallow. But I finally have settled on the fact that I'd be better off releasing myself from the frustration of wearing these: I am selling em because theres some slop in the heel lift department... (and theyre a total beast to get on/off).

How much wear did the y get from the previous owner? Do they have double midsoles? I am surprised that boots that were that difficult to get on and off would suffer from heel lift. This is the one redeeming thing about My RRL's - they are hard to get on, but once they are on, there is very little heel lift.

Stiff boots with double midsoles can take a few months of wear to break in. Once they break in it's a lot better. On the other hand, a sloppy heel fit really doesn't get better unless you can have a cobbler heat up the heel and pinch it narrower.

The other side of this is that you could probably sell them and buy a very nice pair of White's Nomads or Wesco Boss for less money and have a more custom fit. If I wasn't spending so much money on ammo and gun accessories right now, I would order a black pair of Nomads right now.

 

[Ishmael]

Sorry to hear there not going to work for you Bretron. Hope you can find something that does!

I've only recently purchased my first pair of engineers (Lofgrens in Badalassi) and, for that matter, they are also my first pair of lace-less boots. I'm learning that fitting them can indeed be tough. My Lofgrens are wearable, and I don't have any real trouble getting them on. But the fit is pretty loose in the heel.

I think my next move is going to be a custom insole from White Kloud. Goto-san's shop is just a few train stops from me and, while expensive, I think he will be able to dial in the fit. His White Kloud boots are out of this world. But he got his start in orthopedics. Here are some examples of his custom insoles.

http://whitekloud.jp/category/912640-1.html

 

[joeymoey]

Bretron - those are some beautiful boots. If I had the $ and size 10 feet I'd be tempted to buy them from you. Could you please post a link to where you got them or their main page. Thx ~

 

[bretron]

Thx for the well wishes, guys. They were indeed amazing boots- dare I say, the nicest engineers I've seen (even above RCs, perhaps). The heel shaft thing is totally ridiculous IMHO. And i cant figure out how you guys are able to live with it in boots like the Juliens. I don't feel like I have an unusually wide or fat foot by any stretch, but it was nearly impossible to take em on and off. The heel slippage is more understandable, as I purchase them used. I figure the last owner broke them in to his feet's natural shape, which just so happen to be (and not at all surprisingly so) different from mine.

I will admit, though, that this was my first outing with pull up boots since my childhood years with cowboy boots. As I remember, heel lift is what you want with fresh boots, and the counter and heel area will mold to your feet after break in.

For my next pair- Wesco Patrol Toe Boss'- I now need to decide if I go with custom last or standard. My feet are practically the same- maybe a 10th of an inch longer on the left foot, widths are the same tho; nothing that should require a custom last (or so I thought before trying these Becks)... Anyone experienced my same issue that care to help a brother out with advice?

As for custom insoles, I am very curious to know morw about the best approach. Ishmael, share your experience when you get em

 

[injunjack]

I had those Becks as well with very similar expressions. The heel slop wasn't too bad though. It wa sthat they were nearly impossible to get on.

I bought Wescos, Custom, but standard sized. They are fine, I'd say. I have double midsole in them, so they have still noticeable heel lift. And either the bootmaker made a slight error in making the right boot, as the instep of that is tighter than in left boot or my right instep is higher than left. I have never experienced this before. It loosens up, or becomes more comfortable after about 10-20 minutes wear.
I'll give the right boot still some time to break in, if it won't loosen up, I'll stretch it.

 

[mattfink]

I'm pretty sure that RRL handed Julien the design specs and they didn't work well with the type of leather they required. You can't put a vanity cut boot shaft on a boot made of 9/10 oz leather and expect it to work out well. Riding boots are similarly cut, but are made of stretchy thin leather. That said, I was able to have my pair of RRL boots stretched for under $20 and now they fit fine.

This problem existed primarily for one season on the brown version of the boots.

^^^ same story with both my RRLs. I think these makers believe narrowing the boot shaft will make for a better fit, but the problem is with the volume of the boot from the instep to the back of the heel, kind of a diagonal line basically the same line as the strap placement which would leave one to believe the strap would alleviate the issue. It can, if pulled tight enough, but at the detriment of circulation of blood for your foot.

 

[mattfink]

Take them to a shoe guy and have the instep stretched...will cost about $20.

Thx for the well wishes, guys. They were indeed amazing boots- dare I say, the nicest engineers I've seen (even above RCs, perhaps). The heel shaft thing is totally ridiculous IMHO. And i cant figure out how you guys are able to live with it in boots like the Juliens. I don't feel like I have an unusually wide or fat foot by any stretch, but it was nearly impossible to take em on and off. The heel slippage is more understandable, as I purchase them used. I figure the last owner broke them in to his feet's natural shape, which just so happen to be (and not at all surprisingly so) different from mine.

I will admit, though, that this was my first outing with pull up boots since my childhood years with cowboy boots. As I remember, heel lift is what you want with fresh boots, and the counter and heel area will mold to your feet after break in.

For my next pair- Wesco Patrol Toe Boss'- I now need to decide if I go with custom last or standard. My feet are practically the same- maybe a 10th of an inch longer on the left foot, widths are the same tho; nothing that should require a custom last (or so I thought before trying these Becks)... Anyone experienced my same issue that care to help a brother out with advice?

As for custom insoles, I am very curious to know morw about the best approach. Ishmael, share your experience when you get em

 

[HorseHide]

This problem existed primarily for one season on the brown version of the boots.

The folks at RRL in the meatpacking district told me something different - namely that the problem still exists with the current model (which is why you don't see the RRL Murdock in many RRL stores). Evidently they've changed manufacturers and they hope to have the new model in the stores by summer for FW13. I know that I couldn't get the current black Murdock 9.5 on my foot and when I finally got the 10 on I was swimming in it.

 

[mattfink]

The current models are being made by somebody other than Julian.....maybe they have old stock? The ones I have that had the shaft issue were the Julian made ones.

 

[mattfink]

In order to tell which ones you are looking at, here is an article:


http://vintageengineerboots.blogspot.com/2012/09/rrl-engineer-boots-comparison.html

The folks at RRL in the meatpacking district told me something different - namely that the problem still exists with the current model (which is why you don't see the RRL Murdock in many RRL stores). Evidently they've changed manufacturers and they hope to have the new model in the stores by summer for FW13. I know that I couldn't get the current black Murdock 9.5 on my foot and when I finally got the 10 on I was swimming in it.

 

[mattfink]

Here's another on sizing the black/studded Julian RRL EE's.

http://vintageengineerboots.blogspot.com/2011/04/rrl-studded-engineer-boots-review.html

 

[mattfink]

Here are the new ones on the RRL site described as being expertly made in TX

http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12552496

 

[HorseHide]

...just saying what the SAs at RRL told me. Personally I don't care, I've got my John Lofgrens and all is good!

 

[pelican]

The new ones are fine. They are extremely comfortable. Rumor has it they are being made by rios of mercedes

 

[Ishmael]

I'm betting that the Julian made RRLs would fit me and my low instep well.

 

[53Effie]

I've a pair of the newer version of the RRL and they are an absolute bitch to get on and off...particulary the left one, which is odd since that foot is just a tad bit smaller than the right. I sized up a half size because I undertood the instep could be a bit of a problem and it is for sure. Actually, once they are on they are great...feel almost like shoes and just a little roomy due to the upsize. But, no heel slip and very comfortable. At this point I have oiled them up well with Huberd's in hopes of making them more pliable and I am going to try to wear them daily for awhile and see how that works. I may end up having the left one stretched. The problem is in the instep area as others have mentioned. Mine are the black ones. Other than the issues I mentioned they are great boots. Patience will be key I think.

 

[jimmer_5]

I'm pretty sure that RRL handed Julien the design specs and they didn't work well with the type of leather they required. You can't put a vanity cut boot shaft on a boot made of 9/10 oz leather and expect it to work out well. Riding boots are similarly cut, but are made of stretchy thin leather. That said, I was able to have my pair of RRL boots stretched for under $20 and now they fit fine.

This problem existed primarily for one season on the brown version of the boots.

So is the general opinion that the issue was greatest with the brown boots? I have wanted a black pair of RRL's (Julian made) but didn't think it would be worth getting another pair that are hard to get on and off. If the black onese are a better fit.... it's tempting. I can't speak for the black and the other brown, but the oiled brown that I have is only saved by the fact that the thick leather has a little stretch to it - not a ton, but just enough to make it possible to stretch them out a bit and get them on and off.

What just occurred to me is that Bretron's Becks is that I believe they were made of stiff Horsehide which would make them even harder than my RRL's to get on and off. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

[injunjack]

I don't know what keather was used in my Becks, but it felt that if they'd be stretched, the leather will rip.