Does a binding visually decrease the size of the brim?

[jeff]

I'm putting in an order with Art Fawcett for one of his wonderful VS's, and in discussion the options I mentioned that I love ribbon bindings, but that I thought it might visually shrink the brim appears -- an optical illusion of sorts.

Since I love a bound brim AND I like hats whose brims are wider (but not TOO wide, see my "Brim Cutter" thread), I'm pondering asking Art if he would increase the brim by 1/16 or 1/8 in. I don't want to second guess "conventional wisdom" (nor Art!) though, so I'd really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

To help visualize this, I took one of Art's hat pictures and photoshopped it to "remove" the binding. I'm posting it with his permission below.

Please have a look. Does a bound hat's brim look smaller? Or to your eyes is there no change?

jeff

 

[luvthatlulu]

Bound brim. Trust Art. Period. Bound edge does optically make it look slightly smaller; however, the bound edge looks classier to me.


P. S. -- How do you folks learn to do this Photoshop transformation and such? How do you post a still from a movie, too? I can barely turn the d**n computer on right, myself!!!

Not the Lulu

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Optical illusians are an interesting study. The way you have posted the pics is the way the proof of illusion is done, showing that they are in fact, the same. Could you post the two shots individually, for comparison?

 

[jeff]

Could you post the two shots individually, for comparison?

Sure thing -- hopefully this isn't too wide for the forum:

 

[jeff]

P. S. -- How do you folks learn to do this Photoshop transformation and such?

Years and years of practice . I've been using Photoshop since 1.0 in 1990.

The above "transformation" took about 15 minutes - definitely a rush job and not my best work, but it gets the point accross, methinks.

Best,

jeff

 

[ScionPI2005]

After repeatedly looking at the two above photos, I don't think I can really tell too much of an optical-illusion difference between bound vs. unbound.

I would personally go for the bound brim, especially on the specific hat you have modeled in the photos. Of course, that is simply personal opinion; others may disagree and say "ditch the binding."

 

[surely]

Please have a look. Does a bound hat's brim look smaller? Or to your eyes is there no change?

jeff

to me its not that the brim looks smaller, its the amt of felt showing that is smaller, the brim looks different because it is bordered, the eye still sees the same total mass but distributed differently. So in a sense the brim is shorter if you only count the felt showing.
In terms of which looks better I'd say with looks fancy and without looks more street wise. My advice: get one of each!.... (Hey Art, what's my commission?

 

[J.T.Marcus]

It's a close call! If you increase the brim by 1/16" it probably won't look much different, 1'8" and it will look wider than your usual. I'd say order your favorite brim width and get it bound. (Cheers on your fantastic photo and computer skills! :eusa_clap )

 

[jimmy the lid]

to me its not that the brim looks smaller, its the amt of felt showing that is smaller, the brim looks different because it is bordered, the eye still sees the same total mass but distributed differently. So in a sense the brim is shorter if you only count the felt showing.

I agree. There is a perception that the unbound brim looks wider because there is more of the felt showing. But, in the real world, where people will be viewing you from all angles, the width of the brim will be established with or without the bound edge. I think the bound edge looks great on that hat.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[J.B.]

IMO, the bound brim will usually look "nicer" than unbound. An additional plus will be that you are less likely to experience R.B.A.* later on down the line.

...Appearance-wise, the "better left unbound" exceptions are fishing hats like Moose River's, and of course -- the "adventure" hats :fedora:, slouch brims, etc.

* Rippling Brim Affliction.

 

[RBH]

Jeff, all I can add is leave it to Art. tell him what you think and then trust his judgement.
I love the looks of the first hat [is it the HST?] and the 2nd picture does look different. The 2nd looks less ... formal. Formal is not the word I am really looking for but I think it is best to say what I mean.
It is funny how something like the bound edge can change the looks but I think is makes a difference.


By the way great hat in your avatar, what is it?

 

[deanglen]

Jeff, all I can add is leave it to Art. tell him what you think and then trust his judgement.
I love the looks of the first hat [is it the HST?] and the 2nd picture does look different. The 2nd looks less ... formal. Formal is not the word I am really looking for but I think it is best to say what I mean.
It is funny how something like the bound edge can change the looks but I think is makes a difference.


By the way great hat in your avatar, what is it?

Well put, R!

dean

 

[Not-Bogart13]

I actually have a bond edge VS hat in granite, and I find the edge can make the brim look smaller against a darker background (the edging is darker, so it "disappears"), and larger against a light one. But that's just looking at it sitting there. On my head, a bound edge looks a little wider than a raw edge of the same width, no matter what. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

On my head, a bound edge looks a little wider than a raw edge of the same width, no matter what. Take that for what it's worth.

I was going to say that, earlier, but I thought "Naw, nobody would believe that." Thanks for saying it.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Another good question, Jeff

I appreciate all the good questions you've been asking, Jeff. It's making us reexamine some of our assumptions.

I have both bound-edge and raw-edge hats in my collection. As I think back on how I wear them, it usually works out this way: For a dress-up 'night on the town' in a suit and tie, I would usually grab a bound-edge hat. For getting 'down and dirty' for my wildlife research work in the field, I always wear a raw-edge fedora.

It took a good while for me to settle-in on the range of brim widths that work best for me. But now, my choice of the hat to wear on a particular occasion is based primarily on the function it will perform. I want to look good, of course; but I also want to look ready (and be ready) to do the job at hand.

 

[jeff]

I love the looks of the first hat [is it the HST?]

It is indeed an HST. I love it as well .

By the way great hat in your avatar, what is it?

That is a dark gray beaver Adventurebilt, it's about 2 1/2 years old. It's an outstanding hat. Depending on the light it's a pure charcoal, to almost a dark brown under incandescent. I don't baby it, and it has quite a bit of character to it now. Since it's dark, though, it can still fit into more formal situations (the "character" is hidden well when indoors under low light).

Although I love the Indy look, I don't try to look like Indy myself. I've therefore played with the bash several times - at present its in a "popped" C (is that the right term?). It may go back to the "Indy Bash" soon though, there's something just right about it for this size crown.

 

[fatwoul]

Apologies if this has already been said in this thread, but it's late so I will say it anyway...

Doesn't the effect of a binding depend on the colour of the binding, the hat and the background? The binding your your example to me shrinks the size of the brim, because the darker binding effectively camouflages the outside 1/8th inch of brim, blending it a little into the background. If the binding was brighter than the felt of the brim, and was still presented on a darker background, this camouflage effect would be lost, and the brim would appear the same size at the raw brim, if not larger (since the human eye tends to focus on the brightest points of an image, and sometimes exaggerate them).

I'd be interested to see what the effect would be of putting this hat on a background that was brighter than the felt, or of putting a binding on the hat that was brighter than the felt, or both.

OK. Bedtime.