Different weight/type hides and warmth

[MuyJingo]

While on the quest for my new leather jacket, it's important to me that it is as much a fashion item as it is functional protection from the elements.

For many years I would be in several different environments a year...tropical rainstorms, snowstorms, and almost everything in between. Could be why my mall jacket failed to hold up after a while.

I want something that won't fall apart if I get it drenched or fall of a bike (I don't ride but plan on learning...this jacket won't be my primary riding jacket though), but I would also like something that I can wear in 60f degree weather in a packed club without dying from heat.

I'm confused as to what extent the type of hide affects the temperature of the wearer, as I've seen several contradictory things.

I've seen people say the type of hide doesn't matter, it's the lining that determines temperature.

I've seen others say FQHH was too hot to wear if it was even moderately warm outside.

I've heard Goatskin is light yet durable...how less durable is it than say horsehide? is 60f too hot to wear FQHH?

What about Horween Steerhide at 1.4mm (3oz) with a thin cotton lining? Is it possible for that still to be light enough to wear with a t-shirt in milder weather and not suffocate from heat?

How does Biker Steer compare in terms of durability?

 

[thor]

Goatskin leather with a nylon/rayon lining (like in a G-1 jacket) is probably a good all around choice. You can layer underneath for warmth and when worn alone with a t-shirt (in a club or at 60 degrees F) and you won't melt! Good luck.

 

[MuyJingo]

Goatskin leather with a nylon/rayon lining (like in a G-1 jacket) is probably a good all around choice. You can layer underneath for warmth and when worn alone with a t-shirt (in a club or at 60 degrees F) and you won't melt! Good luck.

Hi Thor, thanks!

Would you happen to know if goatskin is durable enough to offer any protection in the event of falling off a bike? Or would it be about as useful as lambskin in that regard?

 

[Doctor Strange]

Goatskin is actually considerably MORE durable than horsehide. Though it may not initially seem as tough as thicker horsehide or cowhide because it is more supple and flexible (so it doesn't require major break-in), it rarely cracks and is very resistant to scrapes and punctures. Getting wet doesn't bother it. And - depending somewhat on how it's been tanned and finished - it hardly changes with wear. That's why it's the standard leather for so many flight jackets.

That said, it's not usually a good choice for motorcycle jackets, 'cause it doesn't have the armor-like properties of heavier cow/steer and horse leathers.

My observation of the upper temperature where you can wear a leather jacket is that it has more to do with sun and wind than mere temperature. If you're in the shade and/or a breeze, 65 degrees is no problem. But if you're in full blazing sun with no trace of wind, you can be sweltering at 55. Your amount of exertion and what you're wearing under the jacket makes a big difference in comfort too.

 

[MuyJingo]

Goatskin is actually considerably MORE durable than horsehide. Though it may not initially seem as tough as thicker horsehide or cowhide because it is more supple and flexible (so it doesn't require major break-in), it rarely cracks and is very resistant to scrapes and punctures. Getting wet doesn't bother it. And - depending somewhat on how it's been tanned and finished - it hardly changes with wear. That's why it's the standard leather for so many flight jackets.

That said, it's not usually a good choice for motorcycle jackets, 'cause it doesn't have the armor-like properties of heavier cow/steer and horse leathers.

My observation of the upper temperature where you can wear a leather jacket is that it has more to do with sun and wind than mere temperature. If you're in the shade and/or a breeze, 65 degrees is no problem. But if you're in full blazing sun with no trace of wind, you can be sweltering at 55. Your amount of exertion and what you're wearing under the jacket makes a big difference in comfort too.

Thanks for your input.

If Goatskin is lighter and more durable than cow and horsehide....why isn't it more popular? What is the attraction/advantages of the heavier hides?

Would a goatskin jacket offer any protection from a fall/scrape from a bike without destroying the jacket?

As far as wearing a jacket in warmer weather...how much would you say wearing a heavier hide contributes to feeling warmer?

 

[thor]

I agree with Doctor Strange; the Navy specified goatskin for their leather flight jackets for abrasion resistance but it's not the same as the armor-like "bulletproof" thick horse and steer hide jackets.
And of course there are different weights (thickness) and quality of goatskin. Some manufacturers use thin, flimsy hides while other use thicker, heavier hides. Both are goatskin but vastly different quality (and usually price).

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Thanks for your input.

If Goatskin is lighter and more durable than cow and horsehide....why isn't it more popular? What is the attraction/advantages of the heavier hides?

Goats are smaller than cows and horses, so the amount of leather per animal and the size of undamaged sections of hide that can be gleaned, are necessarily smaller, meaning more hides per jacket, more difficulty matching hides etc. An altogether more tedious and expensive process. Horsehide is held in fetishistic regard by many, probably down to the nature of the beast and the ongoing ban on horse killing in the USA, and is often ascribed mythical, heroic, impossible properties by its fans. It is, of course, just leather and its properties largely the result of good tanning. Cowhide is very plentiful as a by-product of the meat industry. For these very different reasons - cowhide cheap, horsehide rarer and more sought after by some - they have become the commonest leathers, though sheep hide jackets aren't scarce.


To your original question: Leather on its own is an awful choice for cold weather. But with a good liner a leather jacket can work for cold weather.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Thanks for your input.

If Goatskin is lighter and more durable than cow and horsehide....why isn't it more popular? What is the attraction/advantages of the heavier hides?

Would a goatskin jacket offer any protection from a fall/scrape from a bike without destroying the jacket?

As far as wearing a jacket in warmer weather...how much would you say wearing a heavier hide contributes to feeling warmer?

On the contrary, goatskin is VERY popular. There are many, many more goatskin than horsehide jackets made/sold every year. Just think of all those current-spec goatskin A-2 and G-1 jackets... While there are surely more cow jackets overall, goat is probably the solid number two leather.

You must understand that the opinions you're getting here are mostly from a small, fanatical, very vocal sampling. But the vast majority of people looking for "bomber jackets" end up with goatskin or cowhide (or even lambskin) from someplace like US Wings. And the vast majority of motorcycle jackets are made of cow/steer. Some of us - like me - have been interested in leather jackets for 15 years and have never seen a FQHH jacket... though I have owned two horsehide jackets, A-2s by US Authentic and Good Wear.

I'm not a motorcycle guy, so I have no personal knowledge of whether thinner hides are any good for moto jackets. I'd assume that they're not as useful for this purpose as the thougher hides.

Again, I don't think the hide is the key factor in warmth or comfort. From my perspective, it's the presence of knits on the sleeves/waist, and especially, the lining fabric. I find my cotton linings and wool knits are much more comfortable than synthetic fabrics and knits, particularly when you're right at the edge of the comfort zone in terms of heat/humidity.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

I highly recommend one of the goatskin L.L. Bean A-2s with the thinsulate liner. They are commonly found on ebay. The older ones with size numbers are better quality. The later ones with S, M, L, XL have lesser quality hides and don't fit as nice. The early ones had a one-piece back, then around 1989 they started making them with a three-piece back. About 1993 the labels no longer said goatskin and the quality of the leather declined. The label in the right handwarmer pocket states the exact date they were manufactured. I have many leather jackets, but when it's raining or chilly outside I always go to my L.L. Bean jackets.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[pak]

I doubt if one jacket will fill all of your requirements. IMO a heavy HH jacket is not a comfortable everyday wearing item(goat is about as heavy as I'll wear). Heavy equates to hot in warm weather. Leather is not a good insulator by itself and needs a good insulation to make it a cool weather item. Cool and cold are relative depending on how cold the temp and how long the exposure. For me and where I live leather jacket season is short. If I chose a FQHH with any built in liner I'd be cold in a heavy nice looking jacket. You are setting yourself up for a multiple purchase, me thinks .

 

[Seb Lucas]

Like most here, it seems, you'll need to order 3 or more jackets before you are totally happy with your choice, before you get just the right fit, look and materials. Then you'll probably need several jackets for different weather and looks.

Some of us find heavy FQHH jackets cumbersome because they are stiff and unyielding. I am one of those and would only ever wear horse if it were mid-weight. Even soft heavy hides (like 3.5oz cow) are a pain to me. They are always too heavy and warm for temperate days and not warm enough for the cold. Leather is windproof but provides little warmth other than in the weight you carry on your shoulders.

I can not wear FQHH if the temperature is 60-65 degrees and higher - but as written above it depends on wind and sun exposure. I can wear goat up to 70-75 degrees fairly comfortably. If it's cold neither are useful without layers underneath.

Goat is very abrasion resistant and lighter that HH. It is one of the strongest leathers you can get. It isn't as popular here for custom jackets as HH - and that's just the particular bias of this site. Aero FQHH tends to dominate the discussion although there are dissenters and some new trends emerging.

You need to go try some different jackets on, feel them, lift them, check them out to be sure. See if you can do this somewhere in NYC.

 

[pak]

Are you Aussie guys in the way of the wildfire?

 

[Sloan1874]

I've found buffalo a good medium hide - not as heavy as FQHH, but a but more substantial than say mid-weight horse or steer. I have an A-2 made from it that I wore all the way through summer.

 

[BobJ]

Hi MuyJingo,

You ask:

"When you say the jacket is showing wear, would you say this is mainly a positive thing in that is it giving the jacket character, or a negative thing in that it is losing it's color very soon after you bought it?

I'm about to post another thread on this, but how warm/hot would you say the jacket is? Is it fine to wear it in say spring/fall? What about in a densely packed bar or nightclub?"


First question - I think the wear is not excessive and that the jacket will gain even more character with time and wear. (in case you forgot, it's an Alexander Leathers in seal jerky horsehide)

Second question - as to how warm the jacket is, well, it's very comfortable for sitting around in in the 60s, but if I'm taking an extended walk, it would be too warm in the 60s. I would probably find it too warm in a "densely packed bar or nightclub" unless they had some pretty good air-conditioning going on. I wear it mostly for real outdoor outerwear. With a fleece vest or wool sweater, I can easily wear it down into the low 40s. It has the cotton drill lining.

Jerky horsehide is much heavier than your typical mall jacket, and much warmer than a cloth jacket. If you want horsehide to wear indoors, you should definitely get mid weight (jerky or smooth) as opposed the Horween cromexcel. You should also pick a style that is short, with open bottom and open cuffs - for better ventilation. And go with vegetable tanned as it breathes better. The Horween cromexcel is beautiful to look at, but it is so stuffed with waxes and oils that it does not breathe at all. This is also why it is so heavy and stiff. It really is workboot leather.

My jacket weighs 4.1 pounds in a size 50. Others here have reported their size 50 Horween cromexcel fqhh jackets weighing eight to ten pounds! I can't imagine - mine feels plenty heavy enough. It's the heaviest jacket I own, besides my Filson Double Mackinaw.

Good luck with your quest. Having a comfortable leather jacket that you love, that will last a lifetime and gain character and get better with the passing years, is a joy. Let us know what you decide.

Bob

 

[MuyJingo]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, and couldn't find anything in the search, but would anyone know how damaging alcohol can be to leather, if at all?

Over the years a lot of beer or spirits had been spilt on my prvious jacket, and I'm wondering if that contributed to it wearing out and being damaged.

Like most here, it seems, you'll need to order 3 or more jackets before you are totally happy with your choice, before you get just the right fit, look and materials. Then you'll probably need several jackets for different weather and looks.

Some of us find heavy FQHH jackets cumbersome because they are stiff and unyielding. I am one of those and would only ever wear horse if it were mid-weight. Even soft heavy hides (like 3.5oz cow) are a pain to me. They are always too heavy and warm for temperate days and not warm enough for the cold. Leather is windproof but provides little warmth other than in the weight you carry on your shoulders.

I can not wear FQHH if the temperature is 60-65 degrees and higher - but as written above it depends on wind and sun exposure. I can wear goat up to 70-75 degrees fairly comfortably. If it's cold neither are useful without layers underneath.

Goat is very abrasion resistant and lighter that HH. It is one of the strongest leathers you can get. It isn't as popular here for custom jackets as HH - and that's just the particular bias of this site. Aero FQHH tends to dominate the discussion although there are dissenters and some new trends emerging.

You need to go try some different jackets on, feel them, lift them, check them out to be sure. See if you can do this somewhere in NYC.

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't see myself getting more jackets any time soon, at least not high quality ones.

I'm not actually into fashion at all....but my previous leather jacket was pretty important to me, I wore it as often as I could for almost a decade. I just want something high quality that won't fail in the same way, that is just as versatile. It's sounding like goatskin is perhaps the best choice.

I am wondering what protection if may offer against falling off a bike, which I'm doing more research on.

I am planning to explore leather shops this weekend, to try different hides and weights and such. Hopefully by the time my samples arrive I'll be set to finalize my decision and order it.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Spilling beer or gas on your jacket won't matter; why this line of questioning?

 

[Capesofwrath]

Spilling beer or gas on your jacket won't matter; why this line of questioning?

Remember the bloke in Airplane who had a drink problem? He kept missing his mouth and it went all over him.

 

[gtdean48]

I know I have used alcohol to remove the finish on leather to dye another color but that is different than beer & liquor.
At worst, it may dull the finish but a little conditioner should restore that easily.
None of my jackets that have had frequent drink spillage are any worse for wear....

 

[MuyJingo]

Spilling beer or gas on your jacket won't matter; why this line of questioning?

Well like I said, I was wondering if alcohol could have played a role in my previous jacket being damaged, and I was wondering if some hides were more susceptible than others.

My thinking was that maybe alcohol gets rids of the oils or erodes the color or something.....

 

[Sloan1874]

I think in the case of every maker discussed on the boards here, the more general wear and abuse their jackets receive the better they look.