Dating Your Hat (A Place to Discuss the Age of Your Vintage Hat)

[jlee562]

So the 80's you say? Is there a specific name for this hat?

Unfortunately, I apparently omitted to substantially document the innards of the hat. It was definitely somewhat modern because the reorder tag is the same format in a modern Hatco Stetson and was computer printed, but it did have a model name on it. I thought it was the "Revenger" but a google search proved my memory to be false. It may be a "Stampede," this one looks quite similar.

I have seen a more than a few of the brown ones pop up on eBay from time to time. You might keep an eye out and shoot an email to the seller to see if their tags are still intact.

Although I wouldn't have kept it on my would-have-been conversion, I really liked the braided leather band on this model.

 

[Connoisseur_BP]

Unfortunately, I apparently omitted to substantially document the innards of the hat. It was definitely somewhat modern because the reorder tag is the same format in a modern Hatco Stetson and was computer printed, but it did have a model name on it. I thought it was the "Revenger" but a google search proved my memory to be false. It may be a "Stampede," this one looks quite similar.

I have seen a more than a few of the brown ones pop up on eBay from time to time. You might keep an eye out and shoot an email to the seller to see if their tags are still intact.

Although I wouldn't have kept it on my would-have-been conversion, I really liked the braided leather band on this model.

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it. By the way, I also like the leather band. Very nice classic western touch.

 

[Horsedoc]

Just had my fathers western Stetson renovated ($90 ) by Capital Hatters in Stephenville Texas. The cowboys did a nice job for this New York dude tho they changed the silk and leather band. I know it was a Stetson tho and that is all that matters. My father purchased it in the early 1950's as part of the get up for the Genesee County Sheriff's Posse. Sweet hat that now has a little curve in the brim that is all mine

Regards
Dr H Flynn

 

[Lotsahats]

"To duplicate" tag

I was wondering today about the "to duplicate" tags in hats. None of my modern hats have them; are they a vintage trait? Has anyone done definitive research on these tags?

Thanks!
Aaron

 

[splintercellsz]

I am not sure on them, but I believe they were there due to the hatters using specific block numbers, and what not.

Modern hats are mass produced, so a duplication is not necessary, but back them, a hat may have been dome on a block, so instead of hoping to come across another, you could just have a 'clone' made. Hence the reorder number/tag.

 

[Lotsahats]

Thanks, Justin. I was thinking much the same thing. Is there a consensus about when the tags went out of use?

Aaron

 

[alanfgag]

I am not sure on them, but I believe they were there due to the hatters using specific block numbers, and what not.

Modern hats are mass produced, so a duplication is not necessary, but back them, a hat may have been dome on a block, so instead of hoping to come across another, you could just have a 'clone' made. Hence the reorder number/tag.

Hats are still sized on a block today and hats at the turn of the 20th Century, when production of hats saw the greatest output, were mass produced.

The Stetson factory in Philadelphia employed more than 5000 workers at its height.

In the case of Stetson, I believe the tags were an inventory tool for retailers, not consumers. They changed style over time in response to factory methods, consumer demand and ordering requirements. Computerized tools brought in an entirely different system of labeling in the late 20th C. There are some good threads on manufacturing labels here, though you will find more interest and research on the first half of the 20th C. than on the second.

 

[splintercellsz]

Thanks for the info Alan!

I know they are still ued on a block, but what I meant was instead of producing a multitue of hats as is the normal now, a hat back then wasunique, I guess, if that makes sense (but your response makes way more)!

 

[rlk]

Thanks for the info Alan!

I know they are still ued on a block, but what I meant was instead of producing a multitue of hats as is the normal now, a hat back then wasunique, I guess, if that makes sense (but your response makes way more)!

As Alan said, a specific hat was "mass-produced" in far greater numbers in the first half of the 20th Century than anything made now(especially fur felts).
Hats could be sent to the factory for refurbs, or the retailer could order more hats, or another similar requested by a customer. Cleaners also needed to match Blocks.

The tags certainly were around into the 70's--not sure beyond. Current tags with Barcodes may provide any similar needed info.

 

[Joshbru3]

I have seen tags with order details in modern day hats. More specifically in Hatco hats. I have not bought a new Hatco hat made after 2010, so I am unsure about their current practices, but in the recent Dobbs Velour I redid, there was a tag. The hat was date stamped 6-6-2006 and was most likely made by Tonak, but there was a tag. A modern Stetson that I bought for my cousin was stamped 2004 and also had a re-roder tag. The tag usually says a date of manufacture, lot number, model name, along with some other numbers.

Here's the tag from the Dobbs:

Though I don't have pictures, a Modern Stetson Gun Club that I bought had a tag as well.

 

[Lotsahats]

Great points here! I wonder if we could compile a timeline based on tag style. Here are some of mine, with what I think is the general timeframe, based on nothing other than general knowledge picked up here, so please correct me.

Lee, 40s-50s

Borsalino, 50s

Resistol, anywhere from 50s-70s

Stetson, 2000s

Looking forward to your thoughts,
Aaron

 

[rlk]

Each manufacturer had their own system(some are International). Some remained unchanged for decades. You have to avoid confusing tags that had different uses/sources--not all are from the factory or production. Many are long gone from the hats. You need a number of samples with provable dating to associate them. Each manufacturer presents challenges. General sequences and ranges are the best we have been able to achieve--over generalizing is dangerous and unreliable. Even so its probably better than stylistic generalizations.

Everyone wants a quick and easy shorthand way to date hats--there are a number of threads attempting this already. Its not that simple or reliable. The more you learn the more difficult you realize it can be.

 

[Lotsahats]

Everyone wants a quick and easy shorthand way to date hats--there are a number of threads attempting this already. Its not that simple or reliable. The more you learn the more difficult you realize it can be.

Guilty as charged. You make a good point--that without a piece of definitive information, we all have to live with uncertainty. And "definitive" applies only to that specific hat, rarely to the brand, style, or maker. Thanks for keeping me on the right track!

Aaron

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

Anyone have a guess as to the age of this Herbert Johnson Bowler?

 

[jlee562]

Via Steve Delk of Adventurebilt, 38 New Bond st was the original address for Herbert Johnson, which means that the hat is older than 1971. Beyond that, personally, I don't know.

 

[Purplesage]

How about some help with this Dobbs West

 

[rlk]

1972-1998(Actually I don't think made beyond early '80's)
http://www.trademarkia.com/dobbs-west-73079689.html

 

[Brad Bowers]

1972-1998(Actually I don't think made beyond early '80's)
http://www.trademarkia.com/dobbs-west-73079689.html

This is where the trademark confuses the issue, as I've seen advertisements from 1970 for Dobbs West (and maybe a year or so earlier, I can't remember), which puts it at the tail end of HCA's existence as a manufacturer. With the Norwalk factory closing in 1970, they were being produced out of HCA's Winchester plant. I'm guessing that when Koracorp took over production from HCA, they wanted the trademark and just used their purchase year of 1972 as first year of production to avoid any problematic rights issues. Just a guess.

The one above appears to have the HCA trefoil, which would place it 1970-72.

Brad

 

[splintercellsz]

I just bought this knox from the 'bay, and I am curious to what the hat's age may be...

Here are the auction photos:

 

[Brad Bowers]

Best guesses: If that's a taped sweatband seam that's been hand-repaired with stitches, then it's '30s. If it's a sewn seam that's been repaired, then it's '40s.

Brad