Cross zip nation

[barnabus]

Well. Hello there. I've just bought a cross zip. A no-brand, no-providence 80s cross zip.

I fancied something like this and tbh I didn't fancy spending big money. So this is effectively scorched earth to start off from.

I might even do a thread. Perhaps even the thread I threatened before, about jackets that transcend their dollar value. But whatever, I'm going to do what I can to make this one look like several dollars instead of the actual no dollars.

Here's a seller pic:

View attachment 416264

Let's see what happens.

This arrived today and it's a smashing jacket. Condition is very good, nicely worn but not worn out. Leather is thick and supple in just the way you'd hope.

Trouble is the fit. It's almost spot on, but the area that isn't REALLY isn't. Sleeves are good, shoulders good, length really good. But it's too loose around the belly and the waist - the waist belt doesn't have scope to do up enough to make it snug, and that's just wrong.

So I've washed it, and it's drying out into a torso shape on Manuel The Mannequin. Then I'll condition it and move it along. Hopefully covering my costs.

But I'll show you pictures before it goes.

 

[Canuck Panda]

What does the back look like? Does it look like the leathertogs with the three piece panels?

 

[barnabus]

The back is a single piece, with a kidney panel at the bottom.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

It’s my existing modern Perfecto (613SH, which is 60s/70s pattern with stiff FQHH) but I sent it in to Schott to have the miter buckle installed. They also did a real mouton detachable collar— I initially just wanted them to add the snaps for one, so it would have the old Perfecto look, and planned to have a mouton collar made for it elsewhere since the one they sell is faux fur, but I happened to ask and the factory will make them on request if they have your jacket in to pattern it.

All in all, the changes cost as much as a leather shop, no upcharge because it’s the actual Schott factory. Excellent experience!

Epic. I may have to copy you. Wow, that belt. The mutton is whole other world, but the belt, it's in the details.

Mine has really opened up past 20 or so wears. Finally got some breathing room. I still think I was probably better off going size 42, getting wet and hanging in the sun vs. the 40 and having to tame that wild beast LOL. It's definitely more of a tshirt only and maybe even wear it open kind of thing, but that's kind of what I wanted since I had a bigger sized 118.

I noticed on mine it has a different tag than a lot I see. It says made in USA with imported materials. I'm pretty sure they've gotten their horse from Italy for many years, so wondering if they only recently started reflecting that in the tag or if it's different horse tannery now. Mine was made late 2021. I was looking at another one that was probably first batch in 2015, but it has the big american flag, no note of imported materials. Wonder if there's a difference. But whatever is in mine is top stuff.

 

[roadking04]

ID this

AWESOME!!!! Why would you EVER need another jacket? Your jacket keeps looking better and better. Keep posting pics.

Epic. I may have to copy you. Wow, that belt. The mutton is whole other world, but the belt, it's in the details.

Mine has really opened up past 20 or so wears. Finally got some breathing room. I still think I was probably better off going size 42, getting wet and hanging in the sun vs. the 40 and having to tame that wild beast LOL. It's definitely more of a tshirt only and maybe even wear it open kind of thing, but that's kind of what I wanted since I had a bigger sized 118.

I noticed on mine it has a different tag than a lot I see. It says made in USA with imported materials. I'm pretty sure they've gotten their horse from Italy for many years, so wondering if they only recently started reflecting that in the tag or if it's different horse tannery now. Mine was made late 2021. I was looking at another one that was probably first batch in 2015, but it has the big american flag, no note of imported materials. Wonder if there's a difference. But whatever is in mine is top stuff.

My 2018? 618HH had the flag in it. I lost some weight and got the next size down, maybe 2019? and it had the tag you have. Both leathers looked the same in my eyes.

edit: don't hold me to the year of manufacture, hence, the question marks. I have trouble remembering who won the World Series from a few years ago. lol.

 

[Canuck Panda]

All this talk about the 618HH makes me want one... Thanks guys...

 

[Aloysius]

Epic. I may have to copy you. Wow, that belt. The mutton is whole other world, but the belt, it's in the details.

Mine has really opened up past 20 or so wears. Finally got some breathing room. I still think I was probably better off going size 42, getting wet and hanging in the sun vs. the 40 and having to tame that wild beast LOL. It's definitely more of a tshirt only and maybe even wear it open kind of thing, but that's kind of what I wanted since I had a bigger sized 118.

The mouton is really soft. They construct the mouton collar differently to Thurston. The Thurston method is neater looking; it looks like an attached fur collar. However, this means the mouton folds over at the back of your neck, which can get a little uncomfortable although if you’re wearing it up in cold weather, it would lay flat.

The Schott has leather on the inside but, then mouton just where the collar itself is. Their snapping system is more visible (not that it’s a bad thing; it’s the same method vintage jackets used), but the collar itself feels more comfortable because there isn’t anything extra pressing except a thin layer of leather.

You can see here where the Thurston/Aero collar is matted down from being pressed to my neck. It’s also clear that neither company is skimping on the fur. The Schott mouton feels a bit softer but that’s marginal.


But yeah, the buckle was my priority. I love this jacket and its old school Perfecto look, but there are two things it didn’t have— the miter buckle, and upwards fastening zippers. Changing out the zippers while they still work feels wasteful, so I won’t do it. And anyway the rock stars back in the day usually had those pockets unzipped so the zip was down anyway.

The buckle makes it all come together. Here’s the thing, though. The buckle that comes stock feels like a higher end part, now that I’ve compared them directly. But the miter buckle just feels right.

I think both sizes would have worked on you but with your existing 118, I think it makes more sense that this one is on the smaller side, because you cover both bases. In my case, this is my only Perfecto, so it needs to be more of an all-rounder.

AWESOME!!!! Why would you EVER need another jacket? Your jacket keeps looking better and better. Keep posting pics.

That’s pretty much where I stand. It’s very hard to justify other jackets in this category even when I see wild deals. I expect I’ll still give in to some, and end up regretting it.

I noticed on mine it has a different tag than a lot I see. It says made in USA with imported materials. I'm pretty sure they've gotten their horse from Italy for many years, so wondering if they only recently started reflecting that in the tag or if it's different horse tannery now. Mine was made late 2021. I was looking at another one that was probably first batch in 2015, but it has the big american flag, no note of imported materials. Wonder if there's a difference. But whatever is in mine is top stuff.

My 2018? 618HH had the flag in it. I lost some weight and got the next size down, maybe 2019? and it had the tag you have. Both leathers looked the same in my eyes.

edit: don't hold me to the year of manufacture, hence, the question marks. I have trouble remembering who won the World Series from a few years ago. lol.

I think the way Schott puts it is that the flag means American leather, but I don’t know how consistent this is, because I’ve seen CXL Schotts without the flag (and we all know where that leather is made.)

All this talk about the 618HH makes me want one... Thanks guys...

* 613SH

618HH/613H (same jacket, just different hardware) are very nice without a doubt. They are the modern pattern done in an excellent, weatherproof horsehide, and particularly good for riders because they include the underarm footballs.

The SH is a different jacket, but more to your tastes I think. It uses the 60s/70s pattern, and has this beefy horsehide that I think is my fave thick leather on anything. (I love CXL but this leather feels like a heavy modern leather that breaks in like a vintage jacket.)

The 613H/618HH is no less in quality but it’s not the same thickness. I think you will enjoy the thick 613SH horsehide that is a fight the first week then feels like a blanket after, just slipping on.

 

[dannyk]

The mouton is really soft. They construct the mouton collar differently to Thurston. The Thurston method is neater looking; it looks like an attached fur collar. However, this means the mouton folds over at the back of your neck, which can get a little uncomfortable although if you’re wearing it up in cold weather, it would lay flat.

The Schott has leather on the inside but, then mouton just where the collar itself is. Their snapping system is more visible (not that it’s a bad thing; it’s the same method vintage jackets used), but the collar itself feels more comfortable because there isn’t anything extra pressing except a thin layer of leather.

View attachment 417033
You can see here where the Thurston/Aero collar is matted down from being pressed to my neck. It’s also clear that neither company is skimping on the fur. The Schott mouton feels a bit softer but that’s marginal.


But yeah, the buckle was my priority. I love this jacket and its old school Perfecto look, but there are two things it didn’t have— the miter buckle, and upwards fastening zippers. Changing out the zippers while they still work feels wasteful, so I won’t do it. And anyway the rock stars back in the day usually had those pockets unzipped so the zip was down anyway.

The buckle makes it all come together. Here’s the thing, though. The buckle that comes stock feels like a higher end part, now that I’ve compared them directly. But the miter buckle just feels right.

I think both sizes would have worked on you but with your existing 118, I think it makes more sense that this one is on the smaller side, because you cover both bases. In my case, this is my only Perfecto, so it needs to be more of an all-rounder.




That’s pretty much where I stand. It’s very hard to justify other jackets in this category even when I see wild deals. I expect I’ll still give in to some, and end up regretting it.



I think the way Schott puts it is that the flag means American leather, but I don’t know how consistent this is, because I’ve seen CXL Schotts without the flag (and we all know where that leather is made.)



* 613SH

618HH/613H (same jacket, just different hardware) are very nice without a doubt. They are the modern pattern done in an excellent, weatherproof horsehide, and particularly good for riders because they include the underarm footballs.

The SH is a different jacket, but more to your tastes I think. It uses the 60s/70s pattern, and has this beefy horsehide that I think is my fave thick leather on anything. (I love CXL but this leather feels like a heavy modern leather that breaks in like a vintage jacket.)

The 613H/618HH is no less in quality but it’s not the same thickness. I think you will enjoy the thick 613SH horsehide that is a fight the first week then feels like a blanket after, just slipping on.

Yeah I kick myself because one of the first jackets I got when getting into this collecting fever dream was a 613SH. And the leather is very nice compared to their standard leathers. Well I actually think it’s the same leather as what’s on the regular HH models just a much thicker cut version. They say their standard horse is 3oz and I would say yeah probably 2.5-3oz and the SH is probably 3-4oz. It’s not a heavy leather though. At least mine wasn’t. For all the added thickness it didn’t add much weight. And without the underarm footballs had a much more classic 50s-60s profile or modern day rock n roll. But then I sold it. Should have kept that one.

 

[Canuck Panda]

The mouton is really soft. They construct the mouton collar differently to Thurston. The Thurston method is neater looking; it looks like an attached fur collar. However, this means the mouton folds over at the back of your neck, which can get a little uncomfortable although if you’re wearing it up in cold weather, it would lay flat.

The Schott has leather on the inside but, then mouton just where the collar itself is. Their snapping system is more visible (not that it’s a bad thing; it’s the same method vintage jackets used), but the collar itself feels more comfortable because there isn’t anything extra pressing except a thin layer of leather.

View attachment 417033
You can see here where the Thurston/Aero collar is matted down from being pressed to my neck. It’s also clear that neither company is skimping on the fur. The Schott mouton feels a bit softer but that’s marginal.


But yeah, the buckle was my priority. I love this jacket and its old school Perfecto look, but there are two things it didn’t have— the miter buckle, and upwards fastening zippers. Changing out the zippers while they still work feels wasteful, so I won’t do it. And anyway the rock stars back in the day usually had those pockets unzipped so the zip was down anyway.

The buckle makes it all come together. Here’s the thing, though. The buckle that comes stock feels like a higher end part, now that I’ve compared them directly. But the miter buckle just feels right.

I think both sizes would have worked on you but with your existing 118, I think it makes more sense that this one is on the smaller side, because you cover both bases. In my case, this is my only Perfecto, so it needs to be more of an all-rounder.




That’s pretty much where I stand. It’s very hard to justify other jackets in this category even when I see wild deals. I expect I’ll still give in to some, and end up regretting it.



I think the way Schott puts it is that the flag means American leather, but I don’t know how consistent this is, because I’ve seen CXL Schotts without the flag (and we all know where that leather is made.)



* 613SH

618HH/613H (same jacket, just different hardware) are very nice without a doubt. They are the modern pattern done in an excellent, weatherproof horsehide, and particularly good for riders because they include the underarm footballs.

The SH is a different jacket, but more to your tastes I think. It uses the 60s/70s pattern, and has this beefy horsehide that I think is my fave thick leather on anything. (I love CXL but this leather feels like a heavy modern leather that breaks in like a vintage jacket.)

The 613H/618HH is no less in quality but it’s not the same thickness. I think you will enjoy the thick 613SH horsehide that is a fight the first week then feels like a blanket after, just slipping on.

613SH is on my list now...

 

[Spiney]

Can anyone recommend me a cheap (ish) cross zip. I’ve never had one but love the look, just not sure if it’ll suit me and if I’ll have the confidence to wear one (I’m not young). Just fancy trying one for a few months and then getting a decent one if I’m happy. I’ve got next to no chance of finding anything used as I’m quite tall with long arms.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Can anyone recommend me a cheap (ish) cross zip. I’ve never had one but love the look, just not sure if it’ll suit me and if I’ll have the confidence to wear one (I’m not young). Just fancy trying one for a few months and then getting a decent one if I’m happy. I’ve got next to no chance of finding anything used as I’m quite tall with long arms.

Used Schott perfectos have best bang for buck. You can get older ones from 70/80s for like $300 quite frequently. Those will be shorter in length though. So I'd suggest a more recent 118 or 519 which are cut longer and the 118 also has a long version if you're over 6'2, might be a good option. Those go for $400-500 pretty frequently as well.

If you're ok with a really beefy one, Branded Garments is another good call. You can score one for like $150ish. A lot are more CHP style with the side laces, but sometimes there's the usual perfecto style.

 

[Aloysius]

Can anyone recommend me a cheap (ish) cross zip. I’ve never had one but love the look, just not sure if it’ll suit me and if I’ll have the confidence to wear one (I’m not young). Just fancy trying one for a few months and then getting a decent one if I’m happy. I’ve got next to no chance of finding anything used as I’m quite tall with long arms.

At this point I’d go Five Star for this.

 

[Yamahana]

Can anyone recommend me a cheap (ish) cross zip. I’ve never had one but love the look, just not sure if it’ll suit me and if I’ll have the confidence to wear one (I’m not young). Just fancy trying one for a few months and then getting a decent one if I’m happy. I’ve got next to no chance of finding anything used as I’m quite tall with long arms.

Fidelity “Ranger” cross zip is a longer cut torso. In my opinion they are an excellent quality and very underrated MC jacket. Also can be picked up fairly reasonable price wise.

 

[Bluechel]

Agree on the Fidelity. Spotting the trademark chain nets you a great jacket @ $100 if you pay attention.

 

[barnabus]

This arrived today and it's a smashing jacket. Condition is very good, nicely worn but not worn out. Leather is thick and supple in just the way you'd hope.

Trouble is the fit. It's almost spot on, but the area that isn't REALLY isn't. Sleeves are good, shoulders good, length really good. But it's too loose around the belly and the waist - the waist belt doesn't have scope to do up enough to make it snug, and that's just wrong.

So I've washed it, and it's drying out into a torso shape on Manuel The Mannequin. Then I'll condition it and move it along. Hopefully covering my costs.

But I'll show you pictures before it goes.

... And now it's gone again, off to someone new that it will hopefully fit better.

In its place I've nabbed another cross zip, a vintage Waddington this time. Let's see what happens.

 

[Bluechel]

... And now it's gone again, off to someone new that it will hopefully fit better.

In its place I've nabbed another cross zip, a vintage Waddington this time. Let's see what happens.

What was the issue on fit, the belly? Was this the jacket with the strange flat circle area on the sleeve?

 

[barnabus]

What was the issue on fit, the belly? Was this the jacket with the strange flat circle area on the sleeve?

Yup, that was the problem. I know well enough by now that if I instantly think something's wrong with the fit then I'll never wear it.

I don't know what you mean about the circle on the sleeve, sorry! Maybe someone else's jacket?

 

[Bluechel]

Yup, that was the problem. I know well enough by now that if I instantly think something's wrong with the fit then I'll never wear it.

I don't know what you mean about the circle on the sleeve, sorry! Maybe someone else's jacket?

Couldn't follow the thread, thought it was the Natel.

 

[barnabus]

... And now it's gone again, off to someone new that it will hopefully fit better.

In its place I've nabbed another cross zip, a vintage Waddington this time. Let's see what happens.

Well that one was a total washout too, returned. So, third time lucky I'm now waiting on another to arrive. This time a British style with side buckles rather than the Perfecto waist belt.

As always, let's see...


eta: seller photo.

 

[barnabus]

Well that one was a total washout too, returned. So, third time lucky I'm now waiting on another to arrive. This time a British style with side buckles rather than the Perfecto waist belt.

As always, let's see...


eta: seller photo.

View attachment 419973

And that's no good either!

Too big, in all dimensions. So it's washed and conditioned and soon to be listed ready to make sometime else happy. I'm sadface about this I've because it's a terrific jacket that I would happily wear heavily if it didn't fit like my dad's.

So then I bought another cross zip. Perfecto style generic riding jacket with armour pockets. The fit is horrible. The size is correct, but the fit itself is horrible. So away that will go too.

I think I might be giving up very soon.