Can you guys please help me date this?

[Midnight Palace]

Years back, my friend's father did contracting work and would occasionally do house clean-outs as well. We'd go along for the ride sometimes just to have something to do. Well, on one particular house clean-out, we were in the basement taking out boxes. The house had already been vacated and the previous owner left a lot of things in there to trash. I came across a box of lighters, most without any fluid. They were all typical bic lighters, the kind you'd find in any drugstore. But this one caught my eye and I grabbed it before it went out to trash. I only grabbed it because it looked different than all the others. This was years before I'd ever gotten into vintage or anything. Well, fast forward to present day. I know it's vintage and that it's a Ronson lighter, but I can't seem to lock down a year on it. I looked online but most Ronson lighters looked much different than this. Any ideas??? I apologize for the photo, I couldn't seem to photograph it exactly the way I wanted....

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Take it to one of your bigger antique stores. They'll probably have something similar, if not a good knowledge of lighters.

The last time I saw one with that style striking mechanism (I don't know the proper term) in an antique store, and the tag stated it was from 1928. The rest of the lighter was very different, though. I'm sure this information doesn't narrow anything down significantly. lol


Lee

 

[Midnight Palace]

It does look Deco to me, I'm thinking 20s or 30s but what do I know about dating a lighter? lol

 

[Starius]

I've seen that exact same lighter model at one of our local holiday weekend fleamarkets. If the lighter guy still has it, I'll ask him. You might find your answer before then though, I think the next one is labor day.

He's one of those guys who doesn't price his stuff in his display cases, which bugs me so I've usually avoided him.

 

[FourKingTwenty]

I have five Ronson lighters like that one. They are (from left to right), a Ronson "Standard," another Ronson "Standard," a Ronson "Maximus," a Ronson "Triumph," and a Ronson "Whirlwind."

I used to see them quite a bit at estate sales for under $10.00. I sent a few to be repaired, and I ended up paying more for the shipping/postage and repair than I did for the lighter itself.

I'm surprised that you haven't been able to find anything online. There are many lighter collecting websites, and some dedicated to Ronsons. I know that many of the websites are heavy on images and light on information.

The lighter you have looks like a Ronson De-Light "Standard" or "Princess" from the mid- to late-1930s, but I can't say for certain. The lighter should have a model name and patent number printed on the bottom. The model name and patent number can help you date the lighter.

 

[Midnight Palace]

The patent on the bottom says this:

U.S. PAT.RE No. 19.023
CANADA PAT 288.148
BRIT. PAT 291.695

 

[luvthatlulu]

As a buyer/seller/collector of Art Deco/Machine Age/Art Moderne artifacts, permit me to weigh in here.

First and foremost, what you have is a nice lighter with vintage class. You didn't say in what year you acquired it and that would be helpful in determining its age; but, judging from the condition, I'd say take that year as a base and deduct at least 10 years. The patent numbers will definitely help, but I don't have any references on that. You didn't ask for an appraisal, but let me say my only concern from a what's-its-value standpoint is the apparent amount of wear and tear. Also, does it work?

It is not Art Deco. That's a term that some people seem willing to apply to anything from the 20s or 30s that happens to be silver in color. And it should never be applied to anything made after 1940. Period. There is a difference between true, vintage Deco and "Deco-inspired"; and Decophiles will bow up on you on that. To qualify as Deco to a collector, an item needs to show at least one subtle or quite prominent element of commonly-accepted Deco-design aspects: sleek, curved streamlining; stair-stepped structuring; speedlining in either a vertical or horizontal fashion; geometric, sunray, or waterfall etching patterns, etc. These are some examples, but certainly not an all-inclusive list. The three lighters in the middle of FourKingTwenty's picture would come closer to qualifying as Deco for that reason.

An argument could be made that they are all Machine Age lighters; but I think that, too, is a stretch. Just being machine made or machined in the process won't get something automatic respect from those collectors either.

Your lighter's value will lie in the eye of its beholder. Collectors of vintage lighters would surely pay more than required. Someone who just appreciates vintage items (do we know anyone like that around here?) would simply choose it over a Bic just like you did (and more people should follow suit). A Deco collector would simply pass it up. If your lighter works, I'd encourage you to carry it -- though not take up smoking (this advice coming from an avid cigar lover) as a habit. In any other situation where the gift of fire is needed, it will make a better impression than whipping out a Bic!!! Worthless? Hardly. Just find the right buyer. I would expect it to bring between $5 - $6 if it works.

Not the Lulu

 

[Miss Neecerie]

A Couple of Resources

Your lighter looks very much like the Ronson Jr. seen halfway down this page...down to the diamond shape...it -might- have just never been engraved with a monogram.

http://www.vintageflames.com/

This page would id it as an 'early standard de-light'...about halfway down the page...

http://www.swisherwebworks.com/firepit/ronson2.htm


Another page all about Ronson lighters with an "ask the expert' email option at bottom...which might be helpful.

http://members.tripod.com/~Transporter/Pocket.html

 

[luvthatlulu]

I believe Miss Neecerie has nailed it!

This page would id it as an 'early standard de-light'...about halfway down the page...

http://www.swisherwebworks.com/firepit/ronson2.htm

Now, the Ask the Expert guy should be able to date it. Good work!

 

[Midnight Palace]

Thank you all very much for the info! I'm not looking to sell the lighter or anything. I definitely want to keep it! My main interest is just to lock down a definite year(s) that the lighter was made.

 

[FourKingTwenty]

Both of my Ronson "Standard" lighters bear those patent numbers. I have attached an image of the first page of the patent, No. Re. 19,023. The patent is for the Ronson "Banjo" lighter.

The original patent, No. 1,673,727, was issued on June 12, 1928. The patent was reissued as No. Re. 19,023 on December 12, 1933. Therefore, your lighter was made after 1933.

My other Ronson lighters, the "Maximus," the "Triumph," and the "Whirlwind" bear different or additional patents that help date when the lighters were made.

 

[dhermann1]

It could be as late as the 50's or 60's, but it's still a nice object. The trick to getting those babies to work is to hold the side over the wick down tightly while you build up force with your thumb on the other side. This makes the metal striker thingy move faster againts the flint, and gives a better spark to ignite the wick. I wonder where you can get wicks, flints and fuel for those babies now.

 

[FourKingTwenty]

The lighter couldn't have been made later than the early 1950s. The patent on the lighter, No. Re. 19,023, was extended by an act of Congress and didn't expire until June 12, 1952. Lighters made after that date wouldn't have been marked with an expired patent number.

The story behind the Congressional patent extension is pretty interesting. I found the story in an article called "Patent and Copyright Term Extension and the Constitution: A Historical Perspective" by Tyler T. Ochoa. I copied the text in a block quote (without the footnotes), rather than try to paraphrase it.

"In 1928, Louis V. Aronson, President of Art Metal Works, Inc., received a patent for a pocket cigar lighter.329 In 1932, the patent was held valid and infringed by two competing lighters manufactured by the Evans Case Company. On remand, however, the defendant was permitted to amend its answer to allege inequitable conduct byArt Metal Works. The district court rejected the defense; but on appeal the Second Circuit, in an opinion by Judge Martin T. Manton, held that the plaintiff had affirmatively misrepresented the scope of the prior decision, and denied all relief on that basis. At the same time, a third lighter manufactured by Evans was held to be non-infringing. Five years later, in 1939, Judge Manton resigned his office and was convicted of conspiracy to obstruct justice and to defraud the United States, based in part upon his having solicited money from Evans in return for favorable decisions on the two 1934 appeals. On motion of Art Metal Works, the two decisions were vacated and reargued, with Art Metal Works prevailing in both cases. Despite ultimately having prevailed, Art Metal Works successfully argued to Congress that the seven-year delay between the original finding of infringement in 1932 and the decisions on re-argument of the Second Circuit in 1939 warranted a patent term extension of seven years."

I think that's pretty interesting. It shows that even mundane objects like a lighter can have an interesting story behind them. Patents can be very helpful in determining the date an item was made. Patents can be looked up very easily at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's website: http://www.uspto.gov/

 

[panamag8or]

It could be as late as the 50's or 60's, but it's still a nice object. The trick to getting those babies to work is to hold the side over the wick down tightly while you build up force with your thumb on the other side. This makes the metal striker thingy move faster againts the flint, and gives a better spark to ignite the wick. I wonder where you can get wicks, flints and fuel for those babies now.

I have several of the ronson-type japanese knock-offs that fit into a table lighter base, but use the same striking machanism. I used modern Zippo flints and fluid in one, and it lit on the first strike. Most all fluid lighters can use the same flints, fluid and wicks manufactured by Zippo.

 

[SamMarlowPI]

ive seen a couple of these in local antique stores for about 5 bucks...how can you tell if its vintage and not an overseas knock off? the patent?