Can someone please help me find this type of leather jacket?

[Guppy]

Thanks. I also found this interesting: It says in their measuring guide that "All measurements are taken flat, unstretched, from back"

If they're measuring pit to pit from the back, especially unstretched... aren't they doing it wrong?

I don't fully trust a measurement unless I can see a photo showing how they took it. It's too uncertain otherwise, how the tape was laid. Even with a picture, there can be some distortion if the angle isn't close to perpendicular and centered above the point being measured. I have learned to regard all measurements as approximate. Which can be frustrating because sometimes being off by a small amount can make all the difference.

But hey, that's why you buy a hundred or so jackets and sell the 50 or so that don't work for you.

 

[Formeruser012524]

I don't fully trust a measurement unless I can see a photo showing how they took it. It's too uncertain otherwise, how the tape was laid. Even with a picture, there can be some distortion if the angle isn't close to perpendicular and centered above the point being measured. I have learned to regard all measurements as approximate. Which can be frustrating because sometimes being off by a small amount can make all the difference.

But hey, that's why you buy a hundred or so jackets and sell the 50 or so that don't work for you.

Lol this is true, I've experienced it myself when buying jackets online. Stuff that I wanted to fit normally, unlike the jacket in question. That's why buying "in person" is the way to go so you can try it on, but unfortunately for many things we're looking for, we can't buy in person.

And again, to repeat: If the one I ordered from your link will fit "normally", I won't mind wearing it at all. It just can't be too small / too tight, I absolutely hate that.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Update: The jacket posted a while ago by Guppy arrived today!

Well... I love it! Like... really love it! Not only because I'll be able to get better measurements for the custom jacket now, but because I'll also be able to wear it. It would appear the measurements posted by the website were off. In actuality it is larger, which is great.

I'll post some pictures soon from different angles.

 

[Formeruser012524]

In reference to the post above (#118), here are some photos below. It might look ridiculous to some (or most), but that's fine. This is an unusual project after all, lol.

Obviously several similarities but also plenty of significant differences as well. The most striking difference is the different collar, and not really "round" shoulders. Aside from that, I really love it like I said. It's also not too heavy, the leather feels very nice, it's warm but not extremely warm, and there isn't really any real "damage" aside from it being naturally distressed from wear in certain areas, which I find great. I guess for a jacket that must be around 20 years old it held up pretty well. For what it's worth, people I showed it to (in real life / offline), actually love it.

Thoughts overall?

And thank you Guppy for finding it and motivating me to buy it! Not only will this help me regarding some measurements for the original custom product, but I also got a new leather jacket to wear which is now also one of my favorites.

(In case anyone else finds similar jackets somewhere, always feel free to add links to the thread. I appreciate it.)

 

[Guppy]

For your goals with this, I think you got a good 90% of what you wanted, or surely at least 80%. And for $80. That's a homerun any day of the week. If you still intend to go forward with the custom project, you can use the jacket to inform design and sizing choices, and get even closer to what you want. I'm glad it worked out so well for you.

 

[Formeruser012524]

For your goals with this, I think you got a good 90% of what you wanted, or surely at least 80%. And for $80. That's a homerun any day of the week. If you still intend to go forward with the custom project, you can use the jacket to inform design and sizing choices, and get even closer to what you want. I'm glad it worked out so well for you.

Thank you. In my (warped) mind it's around 60-65% of what I wanted, which is totally fine, much more (and much better) than I expected. But it'll definitely help me reach the 80-90% I'm aiming for. Also definitely a jacket I'm going to keep, so even if I get a "closer one" / custom made eventually, I'll keep this one to wear as well, because I like it. It's also YOU who found it though, not me, so many thanks once again.

Things to note...

I love the feel of the leather and how it behaves, but unfortunately it doesn't say anywhere on the jacket what kind of leather it is. See below:

The measurements that came written on a paper with the jacket are accurate, and they're different from what it said on the website, except for the sleeve length which appears to be the same. The website stated:

Length from shoulder: 30 1/2" / 77.5 cm
Armpit to armpit: 23 1/2" / 59.5 cm
Shoulder to shoulder: 21 1/2" / 54.5 cm
Sleeves from shoulder seam: 24" / 61 cm

And here's what came with the jacket:

I'm also unsure on how to correctly determine the leather strength, because... if I look at the sleeve / inside of the sleeve for example, it seems like it's made out of two separate leather layers. Should I just measure that width and divide by two? See here:

 

[El Marro]

I love the feel of the leather and how it behaves, but unfortunately it doesn't say anywhere on the jacket what kind of leather it is.

A jacket like this would almost certainly be either cowhide or goatskin. Based on your photos I am leaning towards cowhide.

 

[Formeruser012524]

A jacket like this would almost certainly be either cowhide or goatskin. Based on your photos I am leaning towards cowhide.

That's interesting, thanks. Is there a big difference between cowhide and steerhide? Because 5Star suggested steerhide for the custom made one eventually.

 

[JMax]

The difference is a bean bag.

 

[Aloysius]

Same thing

 

[El Marro]

Agreed. Many makers like to use the term steerhide because it evokes a rough manly connotation. In the end they are both bovine.

 

[Guppy]

Thank you. In my (warped) mind it's around 60-65% of what I wanted, which is totally fine, much more (and much better) than I expected. But it'll definitely help me reach the 80-90% I'm aiming for. Also definitely a jacket I'm going to keep, so even if I get a "closer one" / custom made eventually, I'll keep this one to wear as well, because I like it. It's also YOU who found it though, not me, so many thanks once again.

Things to note...

I love the feel of the leather and how it behaves, but unfortunately it doesn't say anywhere on the jacket what kind of leather it is. See below:

The measurements that came written on a paper with the jacket are accurate, and they're different from what it said on the website, except for the sleeve length which appears to be the same. The website stated:

Length from shoulder: 30 1/2" / 77.5 cm
Armpit to armpit: 23 1/2" / 59.5 cm
Shoulder to shoulder: 21 1/2" / 54.5 cm
Sleeves from shoulder seam: 24" / 61 cm

And here's what came with the jacket:

I'm also unsure on how to correctly determine the leather strength, because... if I look at the sleeve / inside of the sleeve for example, it seems like it's made out of two separate leather layers. Should I just measure that width and divide by two? See here:

It's absolutely typical of what around here we call a "mall jacket" - - the sort of thing that you could find off the rack at your typical shopping mall. Not a high end or custom item.

The leather is almost certainly cowhide, but it could be calf or even sheep skin. If you read up on the different grades of leather, "real leather" or "genuine leather" is generally bovine split leather, usually imprinted with an artificial grain pattern or topcoated to hide the grain. It is part of why we tend to look down on such garments.

As far as the thickness, you would want to measure a single thickness, and probably far from a seam. The seams may be skived down to even thinner than the typical thickness of the hide, in order to make the seams easier to sew and not as bulky, but this is a compromise when it is done, resulting in weaker leather at the seams, which is right where you want to have strength. I will guess that if you could measure it with calipers you'd likely get a thickness of no more than 1.0-1.1mm, and probably less than that.

I say this not to diminish your enjoyment of the jacket, but to give you an idea of what you can expect when you move up the ladder to a custom build from a specialist maker. When you see the difference, you will understand and appreciate a lot of the advice you've received here in a new way. Even with "mall jackets" there's a range of options as far as quality goes, and what you have looks nice enough - - certainly not at the bottom end of what you can get from the cheapest by any means. It's not a patchwork, composite or synthetic leather. And polyester lining isn't the best quality, nor the warmest or most comfortable, but at least it is a reasonably durable fabric.

Depending on when it was made (I'd guess 90s) I bet it probably retailed for around $200 USD or the equivalent. Possibly less than that, down to around $150. More than that, and you're paying more for its label than for the jacket itself.

 

[Edward]

Agreed. Many makers like to use the term steerhide because it evokes a rough manly connotation. In the end they are both bovine.

Quite so. My money would be on cow rather than goat too, not least because the vast, vast majority of mass-market jackets I've seen and handled from that period were cow rather than goat. Both of course are more common leathers than horse because of simple availability: they are by-products of the meat industry. (A major reason why, although I enjoy horse jackets as an indulgence, I see these as more utilitarian leathers, using what would otherwise be wasted. Something I see as a big ethical plus: taking from nature what we need (yeah, like I "need" a dozen leather jackets...) and wasting as little as possible. I'd happily eat a horse for the same reason... ). Much to my surprise, I discovered a few years ago that globally speaking goat is the most common meat, over and above cow. Less surprising is India's status as a major provider of goatskin...

As to the cow / steer thing, I would tend to agree. Apart from the 20s/30s German bullhide jackets I've seen (primarily I believe intended for early motorcyclists, and very armour like), I've never noticed any difference that can't be put down to the tanning and treatment process. Schott, for example, distinguish their Steer (613, 618) from their Naked Cowhide (118). It's all the same raw material, though, but the "steer" is chrome-finished and the cow is not. It would be interesting to see if any leather maker had done any research into the difference the animal's gender makes, but my instinct is that it would be much less than the natural variation from animal to animal irrespective of gender. It's notable, on that point, that nobody to my knowledge has ever distinguished between the hide of a mare and a stallion...

 

[Formeruser012524]

Thank you Edward and Guppy for the insightful information.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Lol...

https://www.ebay.de/itm/175099890742

https://www.ebay.de/itm/165266688553

 

[Monitor]

Thank you. In my (warped) mind it's around 60-65% of what I wanted, which is totally fine, much more (and much better) than I expected. But it'll definitely help me reach the 80-90% I'm aiming for. Also definitely a jacket I'm going to keep, so even if I get a "closer one" / custom made eventually, I'll keep this one to wear as well, because I like it. It's also YOU who found it though, not me, so many thanks once again.

Things to note...

I love the feel of the leather and how it behaves, but unfortunately it doesn't say anywhere on the jacket what kind of leather it is. See below:

The measurements that came written on a paper with the jacket are accurate, and they're different from what it said on the website, except for the sleeve length which appears to be the same. The website stated:

Length from shoulder: 30 1/2" / 77.5 cm
Armpit to armpit: 23 1/2" / 59.5 cm
Shoulder to shoulder: 21 1/2" / 54.5 cm
Sleeves from shoulder seam: 24" / 61 cm

And here's what came with the jacket:

I'm also unsure on how to correctly determine the leather strength, because... if I look at the sleeve / inside of the sleeve for example, it seems like it's made out of two separate leather layers. Should I just measure that width and divide by two? See here:

It's heavy sheepskin. Characteristic grain & over-dye fading all over the jacket. Go-to leather of the 90's, which is why I believe the one from the series is sheep too, though some parts display cowhide traits so I can't be sure.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Interesting but probably irrelevant and unhelpful: I found two leather jackets on eBay that have the "zig zag" pattern similar to the original, although pretty much everything else is different, especially on the grey jacket. Both jackets are from the same brand, "Marc New York" or "Andrew Marc". I found it interesting because I've only seen this pattern on Lee Storm Rider jackets before, as someone pointed out to me much earlier in the thread. Anyway, here are the links...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184460665964

https://www.ebay.com/itm/172404889874

 

[Formeruser012524]

As far as the thickness, you would want to measure a single thickness, and probably far from a seam. The seams may be skived down to even thinner than the typical thickness of the hide, in order to make the seams easier to sew and not as bulky, but this is a compromise when it is done, resulting in weaker leather at the seams, which is right where you want to have strength. I will guess that if you could measure it with calipers you'd likely get a thickness of no more than 1.0-1.1mm, and probably less than that.

OK, I got some thickness measurements with calipers, assuming I've done it correctly...

This following measurement was taken at an area of the jacket where there was clearly just a single layer of leather, and didn't catch any part of the inner lining either. It was hard to find a spot where to measure this, but here it is:

And the following was at a part where were there were two layers, and those are practically everywhere throughout the jacket:

According to these two measurements, the thickness would be 1,6 mm. And I'd also say that it's really "tight" at this measurement, meaning you have to sort of push the calipers into it, and when you pull them out you feel resistance/tightness, so in reality it might even be just a tad thicker, perhaps at around 1,7-1,8 mm, but this isn't a huge difference.

Thoughts? I guess the important question is...in case I did this right and it's really this thick - let's focus on 1,6 mm as a safe measurement - would steerhide be appropriate at all for it to "behave" like the original on a person's body?

 

[Monitor]

OK, I got some thickness measurements with calipers, assuming I've done it correctly...

This following measurement was taken at an area of the jacket where there was clearly just a single layer of leather, and didn't catch any part of the inner lining either. It was hard to find a spot where to measure this, but here it is:

And the following was at a part where were there were two layers, and those are practically everywhere throughout the jacket:

According to these two measurements, the thickness would be 1,6 mm. And I'd also say that it's really "tight" at this measurement, meaning you have to sort of push the calipers into it, and when you pull them out you feel resistance/tightness, so in reality it might even be just a tad thicker, perhaps at around 1,7-1,8 mm, but this isn't a huge difference.

Thoughts? I guess the important question is...in case I did this right and it's really this thick - let's focus on 1,6 mm as a safe measurement - would steerhide be appropriate at all for it to "behave" like the original on a person's body?

Nope. All the parts that you've measured are folded / doubled. I doubt it you can find a single raw edge anywhere on this jacket, as no such maker that I am aware of leaves any such parts, anywhere on their jackets, unfolded.

The numbers you're getting here would indicate a perfect 0.9 mm leather thickness, which is considered a textbook standard for mall / fashion jackets.

If the leather was indeed 1.6 mm, that would make it an extreme-weight hide. That's near belt-grade level we're talking about. What I said earlier; 1.2 mm is the absolute zenith you should be considering and I'd recommend you go with no more than 1 mm, for the screen authentic drape.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Nope. All the parts that you've measured are folded / doubled. I doubt it you can find a single raw edge anywhere on this jacket, as no such maker that I am aware of leaves any such parts, anywhere on their jackets, unfolded.

The numbers you're getting here would indicate a perfect 0.9 mm leather thickness, which is considered a textbook standard for mall / fashion jackets.

If the leather was indeed 1.6 mm, that would make it an extreme-weight hide. That's near belt-grade level we're talking about. What I said earlier; 1.2 mm is the absolute zenith you should be considering and I'd recommend you go with no more than 1 mm, for the screen authentic drape.

Dang, I was absolutely sure I found the right area to take the measurement. Once again, for clarification purposes, here are three close ups of the part I measured, circled in red color...

Still the same opinion? I appreciate it.